No,
and this is not taught in any of Scripture. Instead, Roman Catholic
(the Eastern Orthodox tend to reject the Roman version) Purgatory is
based upon a false premise, not only that there is a need for
further atonement for some sins after death, but that justification
is on the basis of actual righteousness, which is first
attained via the act itself of baptism (and which for infants
means without even having to repent and to believe on the Lord Jesus
with all their heart, which is contrary to Acts
2:38; 8:36,37;
10:43–47-
15:7–9) effecting "infused” righteousness, for in RC
theology one is formally justified by their own righteousness.
(Catholic Encyclopedia>Sanctifying Grace)
However,
since since the unholy sin nature remains, then after
baptism unless the baptized is one of the very few who has become
perfect in character in this life and dies in that state, then
entering Heaven can only be attained by attaining perfection
of character ("by grace") thru postmortem “purifying
punishments” and sufferings, commencing at death, in order to be
with God.
But
which is contrary to what Scripture most manifestly teaches, which
is that of penitent faith appropriating justification, with
effectual faith being that purifies the heart (Acts
15:9) and is counted for righteousness (Romans
4:5) and renders one accepted in the Beloved (on His account)
and positionally seated together with their Lord in Heaven.
(Ephesians
1:6; 2:6)
From
where they positionally await the Lord's return and His final
subduing of our "vile body," that it may be fashioned like
unto his glorious body," (Philippians
3:21)and which is the only transformative change after this life
that the Scriptures speak of.
At which time is the
judgment seat of Christ, which is the only suffering after this
life, which does not begin at death, but awaits the Lord's return,
(1
Corinthians 4:5; 2
Timothy. 4:1,8;
Revelation
11:18; Matthew
25:31-46; 1
Peter 1:7; 5:4)
and is the suffering of the loss of rewards (and the Lord's
displeasure) due to the manner of material one built the church
with, which one is saved despite the loss of such, not because of.
(1
Corinthians 3:8ff)
However, this saving justifying
faith is a faith which effects obedience by the Spirit, (Romans
8:14) in word and in deed, in heart and in life, whereby "the
righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not
after the flesh, but after the Spirit, (Romans
8:4) insofar as we do.
And
since faith and works go together like light and heat, sometimes
they are used interchangeably as to what they effect. And which
obedience includes penitent confession when convicted of not
pleasing the Object of his faith for salvation, the risen Lord
Jesus.
The appeal to the believer is to produce fruit
consistent with faith, as a consequence of being accepted in the
Beloved (on His account), to be practically (in heart and deed) as
they are positionally in Christ, to be as much conformed to the Lord
Jesus in this life as we can be, and will be in the resurrection.
(Philippians
3:7-21)
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in
the Spirit. (Galatians
5:25)
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those
things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of
God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When
Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear
with him in glory. (Colossians
3:1-4)
But which progressive practical sanctification
is not the cause
of
the sinner's justification and acceptance in Christ, but testifies
to such being a believer, evidencing "things which accompany
salvation," (Hebrews
6:9) and fit to be rewarded. (Revelation
3:4) For this faith, as manifested in said obedience, God will
recompense (Hebrews
10:35) under grace, even though it is God who motivates and
enables all obedience, (Philippians
1:12,13)
while the only thing we can and must take credit for it our
disobedience.
In contrast to this salvation by effectual
faith, is salvation by grace thru works, as in Roman Catholicism, in
which, to reiterate, it is taught that by grace one is actually made
good enough to be with God via the act of baptism. And which act
itself is said to regenerate and render them good enough to go to
Heaven, and formally justified by their own righteousness.
This
itself is a result from the Catholic premise that justification is a
process based upon actual sanctification via the act itself of
baptism (so that the newly baptized would go straight into glory if
they immediately died then, but not after their sin nature that
remained manifested itself) vs. heart-purifying regenerating faith
being counted for righteousness among the regenerate, but not as
making one actually good enough in character to be with God.
While
in Catholic theology man does not merit the grace by which process
one is justified, yet the "the process of justification"
means that it is on the basis of sanctification via baptism (by
which one receives "sanctifying grace," having an
"interior sanctifying quality") that one is justified by,
and which "confers the right to heavenly glory." Thus it
is held that newly baptized Catholics would go directly in heavenly
glory if they died at that time, before committing sin. But since
such soon manifest imperfection, then this premise of salvation via
actual sanctification leads to the need for Purgatory in order to
become good enough to actually be with God.
"This
inner quality of righteousness and sanctity is universally termed
'sanctifying (or habitual) grace')." "this justification
cannot, according to Christ's precept, be effected except at the
fountain of regeneration, that is, by the baptism of water" "by
which even an infant in receiving baptism is necessarily made just
and pleasing to God," "by the grace of this sacrament the
catechumen is freed from sin (original and personal) and its
punishments, and is made a child of God." "whereby He
makes us just, in so far as He bestows on us the gift of His grace
which renovates the soul interiorly and adheres to it as the soul's
own holiness (Trent, l. c., cap. vii)."
The Council of Trent
decreed that the essence of active justification comprises not only
forgiveness of sin, but also "sanctification and renovation of
the interior man by means of the voluntary acceptation of
sanctifying grace and other supernatural gifts" (Trent, l. c.,
cap. vii)" "According to the Council of Trent sanctifying
grace is not merely a formal cause, but "the only formal cause"
(unica causa formalis) of our justification." For,
"Justification is "considered as a state or habit (habitus
justificationis), it denotes the continued possession of a quality
inherent in the soul." (Catholic Encyclopedia >
Justification) Thus one is "formally justified and made holy
by his own personal justice and holiness (causa formalis)."
- Catholic Encyclopedia > Sanctifying Grace: emp. mine
What
this is means is that "by the grace of God" man, via the
act of baptism - which produces its effects ex opere operato=by the
act itself - (The Catholic Encyclopedia>Sacraments), the soul
receives "sanctifying grace which renders men the adopted sons
of God and confers the right to heavenly glory" (Catholic
Encyclopedia > baptism) being actually made "just and
pleasing to God."
While
this magic act is appealing, and is set in contrast to a misleading
characterization of sola fide (as if that simply meant believers
were merely white-washed sinners), what it means is that souls are
imagined to be actually good enough to be with God. Thus the
innocence of baptism is not enough, but regeneration, however, while
the latter does create a new heart rendering man a "new
creature," (2Co. 5:17) yet his sinful nature remains, as the
new convert will quickly realize.
Therefore
most baptized souls are theologically said to go to Roman Catholic
(EOs
trend to reject Rome's) Purgatory to endure purifying torments
to atone for sins they sufficiently failed to provide for while on
earth, and to become good enough to enter glory.
The
Catholic Encyclopedia states, “whosoever comes into God's presence
must be perfectly pure for in the strictest sense His "eyes are
too pure, to behold evil" (Habakkuk
1:13).
The
Catholic Encyclopedia also states that St. Augustine "describes
two conditions of men; "some there are who have departed this
life, not so bad as to be deemed unworthy of mercy, nor so good as
to be entitled to immediate happiness" etc. (City of God
XXI.24.)
And thus by the close of the fourth century was
taught "a place of purgation..from which when purified they
"were admitted unto the Holy Mount of the Lord". For "
they were "not so good as to be entitled to eternal happiness".
One "cannot approach God till the purging fire
shall have cleansed the stains with which his soul was infested."
(Catholic Encyclopedia>Purgatory)
CCC
1023: Those who die in God's grace and friendship and are perfectly
purified live for ever with Christ...(provided they were not in need
of purification when they died, . . . or, if they then did need or
will need some purification, when they have been purified after
death, . . .)
Every trace of attachment to evil
must be eliminated, every imperfection of the soul corrected.
Purification must be complete, and indeed this is precisely what is
meant by the Church's teaching on Purgatory. The term does not
indicate a place, but a condition of existence. Those who, after
death, exist in a state of purification, are already in the love of
Christ Who removes from them the remnants of imperfection (John Paul
II, Audiences, July 21, 1999; cf. Ecumenical Council of Florence,
Decretum pro Graecis: DS 1304; Ecumenical Council of Trent, Decretum
de iustificatione: DS 1580; Decretum de purgatorio: DS 1820).
Catholic
professor Peter Kreeft states,
"...we will go to
Purgatory first, and then to Heaven after we are purged of all
selfishness and bad habits and character faults." - Peter
Kreeft, Because God Is Real: Sixteen Questions, One Answer, p.
224
"The purpose of purgatory is to bring you up the
level of spiritual excellence needed to experience the full-force
presence of God." (Jimmy Akin, How to Explain Purgatory to
Protestants).
Roman Catholics also invoke the exhortation
of Matthew 5:48: "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father
which is in heaven is perfect" (Matthew 5:48) as a
requirement to be with God, actually presuming that that they can
attain the perfection of God in this life or in RC purgatory!
There
is some wiggle room as regards the conditions of purgatory since
what this suffering actually entails, and how long, for such are are
not dogmatically taught, but while salvation by grace thru faith as
in sola fide means it is effectual faith being imputed for
righteousness that justifies, salvation by grace thru works means
that by grace one is actually made good enough to be with God, which
premise either requires perfection of character in this life (and
which merely being made clean in baptism would actually not effect)
or postmortem purifying torments.
However,
to reiterate, wherever Scripture clearly speak of the next conscious
reality for believers then it is with the Lord, (Lk.
23:43 [cf. 2Cor.
12:4; Rv.
2:7]; Phil
1:23; 2Cor.
5:8 [“we”]; 1Cor.
15:51ff'; 1Thess.
4:17) Note in the latter case all believers were assured that if
the Lord returned, which they expected in their lifetime, so would
they “ever be with the Lord,” though they were still undergoing
growth in grace, as was Paul. (Phil.
3:7f)
And the next transformative experience that is
manifestly taught is that of being like Christ in the resurrection.
(1Jn.
3:2; Rm.
8:23; 1Co
15:53,54;
2Co. 2-4) At which time is the judgment seat of Christ, which is the
only suffering after this life, which does not begin at death, but
awaits the Lord's return, (1
Corinthians 4:5; 2
Timothy. 4:1,8;
Revelation
11:18; Matthew
25:31-46; 1
Peter 1:7; 5:4)
and is the suffering of the loss of rewards (and the Lord's
displeasure) due to the manner of material one built the church
with, which one is saved despite the loss of such, not because of.
(1
Corinthians 3:8ff)
In addition, the whole premise
that suffering itself perfects a person is specious, since testing
of character requires being able to choose btwn alternatives, and
which this world provides. Thus it is only this world that Scripture
peaks of here development of character, such as "Wherein ye
greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in
heaviness through manifold temptations." (1
Peter 1:6)
And even in making the Lord "perfect"
as in experiencing testing, being "in all points tempted like
as we are, yet without sin," (Hebrews
4:15) then it was in this world: "For it became him, for
whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many
sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect
through sufferings." (Hebrews
2:10)
Texts that Catholics attempt to use to support Purgatory:
2 Maccabees
12;44-46 (atonement for the dead to free them from sin ).
O what support is that of praying for men whom the text clearly
stated were slain for their idolatry, which is a mortal sin?
This
does not teach Purgatory, but instead it advocates offerings with
prayers for those who were lost, who were clearly said to have died
due to idolatry, that they yet might be in the resurrection (of the
just), "in that he was mindful of the resurrection." (2
Maccabees 12:43)
Thus
all one can invoke this text from the Deuteros for is for praying for
the dead, even for those who died due to mortal sin ("Now under
the coats of every one that was slain they found things consecrated
to the idols of the Jamnites, which is forbidden the Jews by the law.
Then every man saw that this was the cause wherefore they were
slain...they saw before their eyes the things that came to pass for
the sins of those that were slain" - 2 Maccabees 12:40,42), for
whom according to Rome there is no hope.
Thus
RCs must resort to special pleading that maybe they repented in their
dying moments, but died anyway due to idolatry. And again, the
offerings for them was in hope that they may see the resurrection,
which those in purgatory are assured of, not that they may escape
from purgatory.
However,
while the Holy Spirit records approx. 200 prayers
in Scripture in exampling and teaching how to pray and exhorting
the same, there are zero prayers to Heaven anywhere in Scripture
addressed to anyone in Heaven but God, except by pagans.
Meanwhile
believing this book was Scripture proper was not required until
after Luther died, almost 1400 years after the last book was
penned.
Other texts which Catholics often attempt to
use for support are:
• 1
Peter 3:18-20;4:6
( Peter preaching to the spirits in prison)
Which
preaching was to the "disobedient" lost souls like those
of Noah's day, "wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by
water," and it is obvious they had not attained to perfection
of character. But with His resurrection (Matthew
27:52) the Lord set free those in captivity in Abraham's
bosom, (Ephesians
4:8,9)
also called paradise,(Luke
23:43) which OT saints went to, and was on the other side of
Hades, with a great gulf between the two (Luke 16:19-31)
since the way into the holiest of all was not yet enabled
under the Old Covenant, (Hebrews 9:8; 10:4) but which Christ
enabled by His Death (Matthew 27:51). But which paradise was and
is not purgatory but a place of comfort, (Luke 16:25) not fiery
punishments, and Christ having opened the way into the holy of
holies by His sinless shed blood, (Hebrews 10:19) then paradise
which is now Heaven. (2
Corinthians 12:4)
• 1
Cor 15:29-30 (baptizing the dead)
Which text
Mormons also use in attempting to support their false teaching,
but it supports nothing than was it was invoked for by the Holy
Spirit thru Paul, that of there being a resurrection which some
("they," says Paul, not "we") thought postmortem
baptism would effect, but with nothing inferred as purgatory. And
which the Holy Spirit would never fail to clearly teach on, if it
indeed was of Catholic importance.
• 1 Cor 3:15
(saved through fire)
Utterly invalidated as explained
below*, by God's grace.
• Mt
5:26 (where you will not be released until you pay the last
penny)
Rather than Matthew
5:25-26 being "explicit about Purgatory" as Staples
imagines this either refers to this life, or punishment in Hell, the
latter of which is inferred in the context of Matthew
5:22-26, (Matthew
5:22; Matthew
5:27-29; cf. Mark
9:43), and Catholics themselves argue (Mt.
1:25) that "until" ("till thou hast paid the
uttermost farthing") need not mean a terminus is inferred.
And
here this story cannot be analogous to purgatory, since that is for
souls whose guilt is forgiven (CCC 1471) yet who have to make
expiation for venial sins, but Matthew
5:22-26, does not describe penitent saved souls who guilt is
forgiven yet atoning for venial sins as per Purgatory, but one who
is denying the faith by knowingly impenitently and
hypocritically mistreating a brother and therefore receiving
retributive justice.
And Matthew
5:22-26 correlates to Matthew
18:23-35 in which the subject of punishment is clearly
that of a lost soul who is in no way penitent and acting consistent
with Christian faith, but akin to the one in 1 Timothy 5:8 who had
denied the faith by refusing to provide for his own dependents.
Thus the description there is of a "mortal
sin." And contrary to RC Purgatory, this man was not
forgiven, but was damned, and given the vast amount he had to pay,
then I think "Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no
means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost [farthest]
farthing" (Matthew
5:26) is saying he never will come out,
• Mt
12:32 (sin is forgiven in this age or the next)
That
is simple, except Rome rejects the 1,000 year reign of Christ in
which there will be sin and forgiveness of sins, as Ezekiel shows in
his many chapters which defy then as being mere allegory.
•
1
John 5:16-17 (degrees of sin distinguished)
Which
refers to apostasy, and there are degrees of sin, and of
accountability and guilt, thus degrees of punishment, (Matthew
11:20-24) but which description are only about Hell, not some
interim place.
• Mark
9:49 (all will be salted by fire)
Which is simply
another example of the egregious extrapolation RCs must often resort
to in order attempt to postulate some sort of support for what they
can only wish Scripture manifestly taught, but which it does
not!
Here the only postmortem reality that is seen in the
context is that of Hell: "Where their worm dieth not, and the
fire is not quenched" (Mark
9:48) and otherwise it speaks of salt (Mark
9:49,50;
cf. Lev.
2:13; Eze
43:24) which represent holiness, which works for peace, and one
either has it or they are good for nothing, (Mt.
5:13) and and there is nothing that infers purgatory in order to
get it or more of it, though this would be one of many places we
could expect to see it if it were true.
Appeal
to Tradition. Since Purgatory is one of the many distinctive
Catholic teachings which are
not manifest in the only wholly inspired substantive authoritative
record of what the NT church believed (which is Scripture, in
particular Acts through Revelation, which best shows how the NT
church understood the gospels), - and the weight of Scriptural
warrant is not the basis for Catholic assurance of Truth though
many attempt to employ it in condescension to "Bible
Christians" - then they typically must resort to appeal
to Catholic Tradition.
However,
the doctrine of RC Purgatory is clearly not that which is
taught by "unanimous consent of the fathers," and has
actually been an acquired belief with a process of development
so that now Purgatory is held as not even being an actual place.
Yet hell is Scripturally taught as a actual place in which lost
souls are in a state of torment, (Luke 16:19-31) and men like
Tertullian held that his equivalent of purgatory was a place, a
"prison of Hell," teaching of Abraham's bosom, that,
"Although
it is not in heaven, it is yet higher than hell, and is appointed to
afford an interval of rest to the souls of the righteous, until the
consummation of all things shall complete the resurrection of all
men with the 'full recompense of their reward.'" (Against
Marcion, 4:34) (Tertullian, Against Marcion, 4:34, before 220 A.D.),
And
French historian [and prolific author specializing in the Middle
Ages] Jacques Le Goff further explains:
"Between
Tertullian's refrigerium interim [a region of the afterlife some
believers go to] and Purgatory there is a difference not only of
kind - for Tertullian it is a matter of a restful wait until the
Last Judgment, whereas with Purgatory it is a question of a trial
that purifies because it is punitive and expiatory - but also of
duration: souls remain in refrigerium until the resurrection but in
Purgatory only as long as it takes to expiate their sins." (The
Birth of Purgatory [Chicago, Illinois: The University of Chicago
Press, 1986], pp. 47-48) Which refrigerium is akin to what
EOs tend to profess.
Also,
"In
this vision of the other world [advocated by Clement of Alexandria
and Origen] a number of ingredients of the true Purgatory are
lacking, however. No clear distinction is made between time in
Purgatory and the time of the Last Judgment. This confusion is so
troublesome that Origen is forced both to expand the end of the
world and to collapse it into a single moment, while at the same
time making its prospect imminent. Purgatory is not really
distinguished from Hell, and there is no clear awareness that
Purgatory is a temporary and provisional abode.
The responsibility
for postmortem purification is shared by the dead, with their weight
of sin,
and God, the benevolent judge of salvation; the living play
no part. Finally, no place is designated as the place of purgatory.
By making the purifying fire not only 'spiritual' but also
'invisible,' Origen prevented the imagination of the faithful from
gaining a purchase on it." (The Birth of Purgatory [Chicago,
Illinois: The University of Chicago Press, 1986], p. 57)
Origen
erroneously imagines that 1 Cor. 3 refers to the equivalent of
purgatory as a place, (Patres Groeci. XIII, col. 445, 448) but as
clearly shown
this cannot be Purgatory. And he also opines, "I think,
therefore, that all the saints who depart from this life will remain
in some place situated on the earth, which holy Scripture calls
paradise, as in some place of instruction, and, so to speak,
class-room or school of souls... in each of which he will first see
clearly what is done there, and in the second place, will discover
the reason why things are so done: and thus he will in order pass
through all gradations, following Him who hath passed into the
heavens. (De Principiis, 2:11:6)
3rd
century martyr Perpetua also taught that her vision of what Caths
call purgatory was a place. "Then I understood that he was
translated from the place of punishment." (Acts of the
Martyrdom of Felicity and Perpetua, Chapters iii-x)
Aphrahat
(270-345) believed, “For when men die, the animal spirit is buried
with the body, and sense is taken away from it, but the heavenly
spirit that they receive goes according to its nature to Christ. And
both these the Apostle has made known, for he said:–The body is
buried in animal wise, and rises again in spiritual wise. The Spirit
goes back again to Christ according to its nature, for the Apostle
said again:–When we shall depart from the body we shall be with
our Lord.
Polycarp
refers to over a dozen deceased Christians, and he comments that all
of them are in Heaven: that they are now in
their due place in the presence of the Lord, with whom also they
suffered. For they loved not this present world, but Him who died
for us, and for our sakes was raised again by God from the dead."
(The Epistle of Polycarp to the Philippians, 9) Polycarp
would not know for sure if all of these people had completed their
sanctification but would know they died in faith, and even people
like the prophet Daniel and the apostle Paul confessed sins as being
imperfect.
Moreover,
even the tradition-intensive EOs tend to reject RC Purgatory:
►The
Orthodox Church opposes the Roman doctrines of universal papal
jurisdiction, papal infallibility, purgatory, and the Immaculate
Conception precisely because they are untraditional." -
Orthodox apologist and author Clark Carlton: THE WAY: What Every
Protestant Should Know About the Orthodox Church, 1997, p 135.
►Both
purgatory and indulgences are inter-corrolated theories, unwitnessed
in the Bible or in the Ancient Church.. —
http://www.goarch.org/ourfaith/ourfaith7076
►The
Orthodox Church does not believe in purgatory (a place of purging),
that is, the inter-mediate state after death in which the souls of
the saved (those who have not received temporal punishment for their
sins) are purified of all taint preparatory to entering into Heaven,
where every soul is perfect and fit to see God.
Also,
the Orthodox Church does not believe in indulgences as remissions
from purgatoral punishment. Both purgatory and indulgences are
inter-corrolated theories, unwitnessed in the Bible or in the
Ancient Church, and when they were enforced and applied they brought
about evil practices at the expense of the prevailing Truths of the
Church. If Almighty God in His merciful loving-kindness changes the
dreadful situation of the sinner, it is unknown to the Church of
Christ. The Church lived for fifteen hundred years without such a
theory. — http://www.goarch.org/ourfaith/ourfaith7076
Instead,
as with compromised Jews, Purgatory flowed from false beliefs
as well as paganism, thus leading to such practices as one
that,
arose
in the 12th century among Ashkenazim of the Rhineland, who kept
lists of their dead in Memorbücher and recited the Kaddish to help
the dead through the interim period of purification after death.
According to the French historian French historian Jacques Le
Goff, the conception of purgatory as a physical place dates to the
12th century, the heyday of medieval otherworld-journey narratives
and of pilgrims’ tales about St. Patrick’s Purgatory, a cavelike
entrance to purgatory on a remote island in northern Ireland. As
late as 1220, however, Caesarius of Heisterbach, a Cistercian monk
and preacher, thought that purgatory could be in several places at
once. With his Purgatorio, in which the “second kingdom” of the
afterlife is a seven-story mountain situated at the antipodes to
Jerusalem, Dante Alighieri (1265–1321) created a poetic synthesis
of theology, Ptolemaic cosmology, and moral psychology depicting the
gradual purification of the image and likeness of God in the human
soul. (https://www.britannica.com/topic/purgatory-Roman-Catholicism)
Jacques
Le Goff also attests,
PRAYERS
FOR THE DEAD Christians seem to have acquired the habit of praying
for their dead at a very early date. This was an innovation... These
practices developed around the beginning of the Christian era. They
were a phenomenon of the times, particularly noticeable in Egypt,
the great meeting ground for peoples and religions. Traveling in
Egypt around 50 s.c., Diodorus of Sicily was struck by the funerary
customs: "As soon as the casket containing the corpse is placed
on the bark, the survivors call upon the infernal gods and beseech
them to admit the soul to the place received for pious men. The
crowd adds its own cheers, together with pleas that the deceased be
allowed to enjoy eternal life in Hades, in the society of the
good."... It then becomes clear that at the time of Judas
Maccabeus--around 170 s.c., a surprisingly innovative period—prayer
for the dead was not practiced, but that a century later it was
practiced by certain Jews. The Birth of Purgatory By Jacques Le
Goff. pp. 45,46 , transcribed using http://www.onlineocr.net.
*Purgatory
and 1Co. 3:
This
cannot refer to Purgatory due to the facts that,
1. The
judgment event of 1Co. 3 is the judgment seat of Christ, with its
giving of rewards and loss thereof, which does
not occur until the Lords return and the believers resurrection.
(1Cor.
3:8ff; 4:5;
2Tim.
4:1,8;
Rev.11:18;
Mt.
25:31-46; 1Pt.
1:7; 5:4)
versus purgatory, which (typically prolonged) suffering commences at
death in order to enable souls to enter Heaven.
For we
must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one
may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath
done, whether it be good or bad. (2
Corinthians 5:10)
I charge thee therefore before God,
and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at
his appearing and his kingdom; (2
Timothy 4:1)
Henceforth there is laid up for me a
crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall
give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that
love his appearing. (2
Timothy 4:8)The
judgment of 1
Cor. 3:15 will reveal what manner of workmanship they were
building church with, for “Every man's work shall be made
manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed
by fire,” and while saving faith is one that characteristically
walks in the obedience of faith, (Heb.
5:9) believers may suffer loss of rewards due to their manner of
workmanship.
The fire burns up the fake stones, which
like the tares of Mt.
13:40 at the end, are represented here as wood, hay or stubble,
while the precious stones with fire-tried faith (1Pt.
1:7) endure, and gain rewards for the instruments of their
faithfulness. Thus Paul says to the Thessalonians, "For what is
our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the
presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming? " (1
Thess. 2:19; cf. Rv.
3:11) And to the Corinthians, “we are your rejoicing, even as
ye also are ours in the day of the Lord Jesus.” 2Cor.
1:14) And to the Philippians, that being “my joy and crown, so
stand fast in the Lord, my dearly beloved.” (Phil.
4:1)
2.
Wherever NT Scripture manifestly deals with the next life location
for believers, it is to be with the Lord . (Phil
1:23; 2Cor.
5:8 [“we”]; Heb, 12:22,23; 1Cor.
15:51ff'; 1Thess.
4:17) Not
only did the penitent criminal go to "paradise" at death
(Lk.
23:43; cf. 2Cor.
12:4; Rv.
2:7) as did Stephen, (Acts
7:59) but so would Paul and co. be with the Lord once absent
from the body (Phil.
1:23,24)
- even though Paul told the Philippians that was he not “already
perfect.” (Phil.
3:12). Likewise he stated to the Corinthians, "We [plural]
are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body,
and to be present with the Lord." (2
Corinthians 5:8) and so would every believer if the Lord
returned in their lifetime: “to meet the Lord in the air: and so
shall we ever be with the Lord.” (1Thess.
4:17; 1Cor.
15:51ff - even though many believers were in need of greater
holiness. (2Cor.
7:1)
Paul
confessed he was not already practically perfect, (Phil.
3:12) but he earnestly desired to become as much in this life
(to "know him, and the power of his resurrection, being made
conformable unto his death" - Philippians
3:10) as he would via the resurrection, yet he knew that if he
died before that then he would be with the Lord.
Therefore
we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the
body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by
sight). We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent
from the body, and to be present with the Lord. (2
Corinthians 5:6-8)
For to me to live is Christ, and
to die is gain. But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my
labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. For I am in a strait
betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which
is far better: (Philippians
1:21-23)
I press toward the mark for the prize of the
high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be
perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded,
God shall reveal even this unto you. (Philippians
3:14-15)
Brethren, be followers together of me, and
mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. (Philippians
3:17)
For our conversation is in heaven; from whence
also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who
shall change our vile body,
that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to
the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto
himself. (Philippians
3:20-21)
3. And as expressed in that verse and
others, the resurrection is the only transformative event the
believer manifestly looks forward to after this life (Rm.
8:23; 2Co.
5:1-4; Phil
3:20,21;
1Jn.
3:2) — not purgatory, which suffering commences at death in
order to enable souls to enter Heaven.
4. Furthermore,
Scripture only reveals growth in grace and overcoming as being
realized in this world, with its temptations and trials, (1
Peter 1:6-7; 1Jn.2:14;
5:4,5;
Rv.
2.7,11,17,26;
3:5,12,21)
where alternatives to submitting to God can be made (suffering
itself does not make one mature) and thus it was here that the Lord
Himself was made “perfect,” (Heb.
2:10) as in being “in all points tempted like as we are, yet
without sin.” (Heb.
4:15)
Thus what Scripture teaches is that it is on
earth that testing and overcoming takes place, and that the elect go
to be with the Lord upon death, or at His return, whichever comes
first, and then they are judged as to the manner of works,
reflecting their faith, and rewarded or suffer loss of rewards.
While perfection of character in this life. Mt
5:48 is invoked in support of this perfection being needed to be
with God (which in context refers to treating your enemy
benevolently), yet this does not teach that the achievement of
absolute moral perfection in this life is a perquisite for
salvation, which idea requires redefining salvation as to mean
progressing to a state of being just enough by moral perfection to
be with the Lord, and that being absent from the body means present
in purgatory, not with the Lord, contrary to what is expressly
stated. And which is akin to placing one under the Law, (Gal.
3:10) versus justification by imputed righteousness (justifying
the unGodly by faith: Rm.
4:5) appropriated by a faith, but a faith which effects
holiness.
For while salvific faith is one which
characteristically effects the “obedience of faith” toward its
Object (which faith in any moral authority will do), and which is an
overcoming kind of faith, (Rv. 2,3), and grows towards the maturity
which is called perfection, (Col.
1:28; 4:12;
Ja. 1:4; 3:2; 1Jn.
4:17) and which faith has “great recompense of reward,”
(Heb.
10:35), yet Scripture states that believers (being of true
faith) are presently saved (Titus
3:5), and positionally perfect (Heb.
10:14) and seated in Heaven. (Eph.
2:6) And thus Christ can dwell with them now - "Christ in
you, the hope of glory (Col.
1:27) - and as shown, they can and will go to be with the Lord
at death, or at the Lord's return.
Finally, this RC
interpretation of 1Co. 3 is not one which is even officially taught
by Rome as requiring assent, and is contradicted by the notes in the
official RC Bible which notes state,
The text of ⇒
1
Cor 3:15 has sometimes been used to support the notion of
purgatory, though it does not envisage this. -
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PZ8.HTM#$4AC
The
following is from a debate with a disciple of Rome, Scott Windsor
Sr., who engaged me in debate
on James Swans site, "Beggars all. His words are in
italics:
While
I get the rationalizations you put forth,
No,
what you do not get then is that Scripture clearly speak of the next
conscious reality for believers then it is with the Lord, (Lk. 23:43
[cf. 2Cor. 12:4; Rv. 2:7]; Phil 1:23; 2Cor. 5:8 [“we”]; 1Cor.
15:51ff'; 1Thess. 4:17) And the next transformative experience that
is manifestly taught is that of being like Christ in the
resurrection. (1Jn. 3:2; Rm. 8:23; 1Co 15:53,54; 2Co. 2-4)
At
which time is the judgment seat of Christ, which is the only
suffering after this life, which does not begin at death, but awaits
the Lord's return, (1 Corinthians 4:5; 2 Timothy. 4:1,8; Revelation
11:18; Matthew 25:31-46; 1 Peter 1:7; 5:4) and is the suffering of
the loss of rewards (and the Lord's displeasure) due to the manner
of material one built the church with, which one is saved despite
the loss of such, not because of. (1 Corinthians 3:8ff)
Since
all you see are rationalizations I repeated what Scripture says,
which all your strained or wrested appeals to texts which do not
teach Purgatory cannot refute. -
I can provide prooftexts which allow us to rationalize that there is
indeed a Purgatory -
And
which attempts have been refuted here in a succession of posts, and
shown that belief in Purgatory is not what is manifest in the the
only wholly inspired authoritative record of what the NT church
believed (including how they understood the OT and gospels). But
there is always another RC devotee who seems compelled to defend
whatever Rome imagines, regards of how cultic it makes them look.
and-
if it exists, then the Church, through her authority to bind or
loose whatsoever she chooses, could indeed loose in a a plenary or
partial fashion the time spent in Purgatory.
Please.
Parroting prevaricating propaganda may be comforting to the Catholic
choir but it simply will not stand the test of examination of what
the NT church believed in the most ancient substantive record. But I
do understand that Rome has presumed to infallibly declare she is
and will be perpetually infallible whenever she speaks in accordance
with her infallibly defined (scope and subject-based) formula, which
renders her declaration that she is infallible, to be infallible, as
well as all else she accordingly declares.
Maybe you want
to try the "The Church ® gave you the Scriptures, thus it is
the supreme infallible authority on what it means" argument.
that
indulgences are ONLY for those who are saved already.
I
think I expressed that, except that "saved" in Scripture
means the next conscious reality for believers after this life it is
with the Lord. Who is not in RC Purgatory.
May God
peradventure grant you "repentance to the acknowledging of the
truth." (2 Timothy 2:25)
Scott
Windsor, Sr. said...Greetings PBJ, I took the time to respond fully
to your posting. It became too long (mostly because of the list of
Bible verses you cited, but didn't quote) for a combox response so I
posted to my blog. Click
Here for my response.
Pt.
1
I do not recall seeing your reply which came 6 days
after my last post, but seeing as I have much later come by your
sophistry then I will take some time (hours for me to type) to
refute your poor attempt at trying to refute my reproof of RC
Purgatory.
In response to Lk. 23:43, this day thou shalt
be with me in paradise," you respond Purgatory
IS part of Paradise. Only the SAVED can be in Purgatory, but
which bare assertion misses the point of my citing this text, which
was part of showing that Paradise is now Heaven.
However,
Purgatory is NOT Paradise, AKA "Abraham's bosom," since
that is a place of comfort, (Luke 16:25) not "fire and torments
or 'purifying' punishments.'" (Indulgentiarum Doctrina)
Next,
in response to the corresponding text (2Cor. 12:4, "That he was
caught up into paradise...") that I listed together with the
above, you state, This
speaks NOTHING about after this life, yet
it certainly does, being caught "up to the third heaven,"(2Cor.
12:2) and your own NAB notes support the inference that this was
God's abode. And with my point being that paradise is now Heaven,
where those whom Christ set free went at His resurrection. Thus
supporting what I stated, when "Scripture clearly speak[s] of
the next conscious reality for believers then it is with the Lord."
Next, in response to Rv. 2:7 ("I will give to eat
of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of my God"), you
argue that this cannot be used against Purgatory, but that it even
supports it, stating, "He that overcometh (the trials of
Purgatory) shall eat of the tree of life...."
However,
it is against Purgatory since not only is the tree of life in
paradise, versus the two being the same, or preceding it (both of
which you have now argued), but together with the other verses this
testifies to what I said, that the next conscious reality for
believers is with the Lord.
Next, when faced with the
next corresponding verse, Phil 1:23, "having a desire to depart
and to be with Christ," you admit that Paul here expresses his
desire to be with Christ, yet blithely assert, "there is no
negation of Purgatory here," yet there certainly is.
For
as shown, paradise was a place of comfort, not fire and torments or
purifying' punishments, and is the 3rd heaven, where the tree of
life is, and thus the Lord, and the imperfect Paul (Philippians
3:12,13) expressed he would go to be with once absent from his
earthly body.
Which bring us to the next verse of
conflation which you are compelled to deny, 2Cor. 5:8, "to be
absent rather from the body, and to be present with the Lord."
To which you again blithely assert, there
is no denial of Purgatory here! The desire to be in Heaven does not
mean there is no Purgatory.
Yet
there certainly is for the same reason as was shown. To die as a
believe is to be with the Lord, in paradise, the 3rd Heaven, versus
awaiting that reality by becoming actually good enough thru RC
Purgatory.
Next up, 1Cor. 15:51ff' "the dead will be
raised imperishable, and we will be changed," which (once again
taking in isolation) you argue, this "does not preclude going
to Purgatory." However it does, for as the next verse in my
list states,
1Thess. 4:17 - "After that, we who are
still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the
clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord
forever."
To which you wishfully assert, SW:
Keep in mind, those in Purgatory WILL be with Him forever too. Still
no preclusion of Purgatory here.
However,
contrary to your imposed intermediate stage, those who die or are
alive at the coming of Christ go directly be with the Lord forever,
non-stop, and which is a reality you cannot avoid despite your
compelled assertions to the contrary.
-
11:59
AM, December 11, 2019
-
PeaceByJesus
said...
-
Pt.
2
Yet as you must deny what Scripture teaches, then
faced with the next verse, 1Jn. 3:2 ."...when he shall appear,
we shall be like to him: because we shall see him as he is,"
you assert, "what we shall be does not mean we will not be
purified before we get there."
However,
contrary to this intermediate stage, the substantiated fact remains
that to be absent from this life via death or the Lord's return is
to be with the Lord forever. And that as stated, "the next
transformative experience that is manifestly taught is that of
being like Christ in the resurrection."
And which
the next verse conflates with, Rm. 8:23, "...the redemption of
our body." Which again is met with your simple denial that
this does not equate to no Purgatory, but which intermediate
stage is just what is missing and must be imposed to support a
tradition of men.
Worse, next, in actually trying to
wrest support, you abuse Scripture by taking a verse which speaks
about the resurrection (1Co 15:53, "this corruptible must put
on incorruption; and this mortal must put on immortality),"
and making it refer to or support Purgatory, stating,
"Yes,
when we go to Purgatory our corruption puts on
incorruption."
However, 1Co 15:53 is not
speaking about Purgatory, a condition commencing at death, of
making atonement for sins and becoming pure enough to enter Heaven,
but refers to the (first) resurrection, that of the bodies of
believers who already directly went to be with the Lord, and with
the only transformative experience after this life being that of
made like Christ in the resurrection!
Moving on, after
I stated that "At which time [the resurrection] is the
judgment seat of Christ, which is the > only suffering after
this life," you incredibly assert that 1 Corinthians 4:5 which
refers to this, "supports Purgatory! "Who will bring
to light the hidden things of darkness..." but every man shall
still have praise from God? Even though the things of darkness are
exposed - "every man" who is in this purification IS
saved and shall have praise from God!"
Which
is either ignorance or sophistry, for RC Purgatory is not the
resurrection of believers, which is what 1 Corinthians 4:5 refers
to, and which resurrection awaits the return of Christ, and is the
time when the Lord gives reward unto His servants at the judgment
seat of Christ, making what they did manifest and rewarding them.
(1Cor. 3:8ff; 4:5; 2Tim. 4:1,8; Rev.11:18; Mt. 25:31-46; 1Pt. 1:7;
5:4) In which one is saved despite the loss of such fruit, not
because of the loss. (1 Corinthians 3:8ff)
You next try
(of-course) to face 2 Timothy 4:1,8 ("...the Lord the just
judge will render to me in that day..."and to which you
respond with I would be relatively certain that St. Paul
suffered his Purgatory while still on Earth."
Which
misses the point, that this text goes together with the other texts
which show that the day of Christ is the resurrection and when
believers shall be judged and gain or less rewards, which is not
Purgatory. Meanwhile Paul himself testified that he had not yet
attained unto perfection, nor did he ever express hope that
Purgatory would do it, but while he strove to presently be (what he
was positionally in Christ) perfect like he would be in the
resurrection, (Philippians 3:10-15) he only pointed to that event
as effecting charge after this life, when Christ "shall change
our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious
body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue
all things unto himself." (Philippians 3:21). -
12:01
PM, December 11, 2019
-
PeaceByJesus
said...
-
Part
3
You next are faced with Revelation 11:18 ("...the
time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou
shouldest render reward to thy servants...") which conflates
with the other texts which establish that 1 Cor. 3:8-15 awaits the
return of the Lord Jesus and the judgment seat of Christ. Yet which
you yet try to spin as supporting Purgatory, or at least not
denying it, stating, nothing is denying a time of purification
of those souls who WILL BE rewarded."
Yet no
matter how much RCs need to spin 1 Cor. 3:8-15 as referring to
Purgatory or supporting it, this is simply disallowed even by the
very FACT that this awaits the return of Christ, versus commencing
at death as with Purgatory!
Meanwhile the suffering is
not that of being purified of character faults so that one may be
good enough to enter Heaven and with "saints" who went
there directly, but the judgment is of believers who are already
with the Lord, and the suffering loss is that of the manner of
workmanship believers attempted to build the church with being
burned up (as tares will be), but which one is saved despite
of
Next you respond to Matthew 25:31-46, which testifies
to believers being rewarded, by asserting, EVERY MAN who goes to
Purgatory SHALL GO INTO LIFE EVERLASTING too! . but which is
simply begging the question, that of presuming the very thing that
has only being invalidated, that of Purgatory being referred to.
Along with this attempt to compel what 1 Cor. 3:8-15
refers to as being Purgatory, or supporting it, that those being
purged will "suffer loss" though they will still be
"saved" in the end.
But which is the very
argument that has just been shown to be utterly untenable! Some RCs
seem to think that much of any verse which refers to purification
supports Purgatory, but which simply fails, and such extrapolation
testifies to the desperate measure RCs can resort to in the light
of what Scripture actually manifestly clearly consistently teaches
as regards believers after this life.
Yet you actually
double-down on arguing what which is untenable, invoking (A
verse from me) 1 Cor. 3:15 , which simply cannot refer to
Purgatory, and actually contradicts it as explained. IF it is
burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself is still saved! That
is PRECISELY what Purgatory is all about!
The
reality that something is being burned up from the saved simply
does not translate into Purgatory, due (again) to the fact that
this event awaits the Lord's return, and what is consumed are
believers works, not character defects, and the subjects are
already with the Lord, and will still be saved despite such less,
not because of them.
Yet you must still blindly insist,
Yes, this IS Purgatory!... NOT ONE of those verses refutes
Purgatory and which further testifies to RC blindness or
ignorance and or sophistry.
-
12:04
PM, December 11, 2019
-
PeaceByJesus
said...
-
Part
4
Which is also invalid, untenable, and the logic (being
the magisterial discerners and stewards of Scripture means such
possess infallibility of office and thus are to be submitted to)
used in support of it ultimately invalidates the NT church itself.
The Peter
of Scripture was not the Peter of Rome , which even the EO's
argue tradition does not support (which
it does not ), but this post is already long enough then
Scripture lies to us in telling us she can bind or loose whatsoever
she chooses
Including
that she can bind or loose whatsoever she chooses. For Rome has
presumed to infallibly declare she is and will be perpetually
infallible whenever she speaks in accordance with her infallibly
defined (scope and subject-based) formula, which renders her
declaration that she is infallible, to be infallible, as well as
all else she accordingly declares.
However Scripture
nowhere lies to us and tells us she can bind or loose whatsoever
she chooses without error, for while all authority has power to
bind and loose, varying in scope and degree, which Scribes and
Pharisees has as do fathers and husbands, this
does not mean such possess infallibility of office . IF
there is merit to the Church having said authority THEN the matter
of Purgatory is not really up for debate anymore. IF the Church
does not have this authority - then Scripture lies to us in telling
us she can bind or loose whatsoever she chooses and that binding
and/or loosing is also in effect in Heaven.
At
least you are honest and implicitly reveal why RCs can so blithely
dismiss what refutes them and abuse Scripture in compelling it as a
slave to support Rome and their assertions in support of her, as
you have. For that is what it is so often for them, an slave abused
to support Rome, and not the sure and supreme standard for Truth
claims as is is abundantly
evidenced to be, which even the veracity of the apostles was
subject to. Instead church law is to be supreme, under the false
premise that God is the author of both.
In
contrast , Scripture itself and most of it came before the
church, and was built upon its prophetic and doctrinal foundation.
And thus the appeal to it in establishing the authority of teaching
by the church, including in Acts 15, versus the basis for veracity
resting upon the novel and unScriptural premise of ensured
perpetual magisterial infallibility as per Rome.
Yet again,
this would be another thread, and as it is I will likely have to
split this one up, while RC Purgatory remains a fable, one of the
many distinctive Catholic teachings are
not manifest in the only wholly inspired substantive authoritative
record of what the NT church believed (which is Scripture,
especially Acts thru Revelation. and which best shows how the NT
church understood the OT and gospels).
May God
peradventure grant you "repentance to the acknowledging
of the truth." (2 Timothy 2:25) -
12:13
PM, December 11, 2019