Saturday, November 4, 2023

Misc. posts, with research, regarding Israel and Palestinians

Misc. posts, with research (and a little subsequent editing, and subject to correction), regarding Israel and Palestinians (and see end) [some is redundant, and I hope all is accurate]

Over 4,000 years ago, there were small tribes living in Canaan, such as Moabites, Amalekites, etc. There was no Palestine of people or land. Then around 3,200 years ago, the 12 tribes of Israel, united under King Saul into the first kingdom in the region, a Jewish theocracy called “Israel.” That split into the kingdoms of Judah and Israel (both Jewish), which were conquered by the Babylonian empire a little over 2,500 years ago. This became the Persian Empire, which was defeated by Alexander the Great, and Israel was controlled by the Greeks.

The Greeks were defeated by the Hasmoneans, and Israel once again became a Jewish state about 2,200 years ago. The Hasmoneans were beaten by the Romans, and there followed a series of kingdoms that controlled Israel: Byzantine, Sassanid, Ummayad, Frankish, Christian, and eventually the Mamluk Dynasty, which controlled the region in the 13th-16th centuries. This is the first time there is a governmental Muslim presence in Israel, but again, it is not related to Palestine as a people or nation at all. The Mamluks ultimately were absorbed into the Ottoman Empire, which controlled the region until it was defeated by the British in the 20th century. Nowhere in this 3,000-year history does Palestine or Palestinians exist or even get discussed. The British created a mandate called “Palestine” on July 24, 1922, which was the first mention of the word in thousands of years.” - https://pjmedia.com/rabbi-michael-barclay/2023/10/14/there-is-no-such-thing-as-palestinians-n1735136

Wikipedia informs (which is only as good as its references, which the good OP article lacks) The term "Palestine" first appeared in the 5th century BCE when the ancient Greek historian Herodotus wrote of a "district of Syria, called PalaistinĂȘ" between Phoenicia and Egypt in The Histories.[7] Herodotus provides the first historical reference clearly denoting a wider region than biblical Philistia, as he applied the term to both the coastal and the inland regions such as the Judean Mountains and the Jordan Rift Valley.[8][9][10][11] Later Greek writers such as Aristotle, Polemon and Pausanias also used the word, which was followed by Roman writers such as Ovid, Tibullus, Pomponius Mela, Pliny the Elder, Dio Chrysostom, Statius, Plutarch as well as Roman Judean writers Philo of Alexandria and Josephus.[12] There is not currently evidence of the name on any Hellenistic coin or inscription.[13]

In the early 2nd century CE, the term "Syria Palaestina"[a] (literally, "Palestinian Syria"[14][15]) was given to the Roman province of Judaea either before or after the suppression of the Bar Kokhba revolt in 135 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_name_Palestine

I add that what the radical Left charges is that Israel is an illegal occupier (which seems to at least be inferred by the two-state advocates, including Putin), denying them full ownership of their historical land (which was mostly cleansed of a very wicked nation, and later lost to conquerors due to Israel's infidelity to God, but from what I see, thru a succession of conquerors part of their land was given back to the Jews, who then gained more of it (whole giving back almost all the land it controlled after Islamic wars) due to the militant intolerance of Muslims to a Jewish state. Who had no historical right to their militant intolerance to the Jewish state.

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"Israel has rejected Palestinian demands for a return of refugees as part of a peace deal, arguing that it would threaten the country’s Jewish majority." [Associated Press]

What the liberal AP does not tell its readers (who are mostly headline readers on Smart Phones) is that

The Palestinian right of return is the political position or principle that Palestinian refugees, both first-generation refugees (c. 30,000 to 50,000 people still alive as of 2012)[3][4] and their descendants (c. 5 million people as of 2012),[3] have a right to return, and a right to the property they themselves or their forebears left behind or were forced to leave in what is now Israel and the Palestinian territories. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_right_of_return

The United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine provided for only 62% of the land allocated to the Jewish state," [while] The land allocated to the Arab State in the final plan included about 43% of Mandatory Palestine and consisted of all of the highlands, except for Jerusalem, plus one-third of the coastline. The highlands contain the major aquifers of Palestine, which supplied water to the coastal cities of central Palestine, including Tel Aviv. The Jewish State allocated to the Jews, who constituted a third of the population and owned about 7% of the land, was to receive 56% of Mandatory Palestine, a slightly larger area to accommodate the increasing numbers of Jews who would immigrate there. The Jewish State included three fertile lowland plains – the Sharon on the coast, the Jezreel Valley and the upper Jordan Valley. The bulk of the proposed Jewish State's territory, however, consisted of the Negev Desert,[56] which was not suitable for agriculture, nor for urban development at that time. The Jewish State would also be given sole access to the Sea of Galilee, crucial for its water supply, and the economically important Red Sea.

"the proposed Arab State would include the central and part of western Galilee, with the town of Acre, the hill country of Samaria and Judea, an enclave at Jaffa, and the southern coast stretching from north of Isdud (now Ashdod) and encompassing what is now the Gaza Strip, with a section of desert along the Egyptian border. " "According to the plan, Jews and Arabs living in the Jewish state would become citizens of the Jewish state and Jews and Arabs living in the Arab state would become citizens of the Arab state."

By virtue of Chapter 3, Palestinian citizens residing in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem, as well as Arabs and Jews who, not holding Palestinian citizenship, resided in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem would, upon the recognition of independence, become citizens of the State in which they were resident and enjoy full civil and political rights.

Arab leaders and governments rejected the plan of partition in the resolution and indicated that they would reject any other plan of partition.[9] The Arab states' delegations declared immediately after the vote for partition that they would not be bound by the decision, and walked out accompanied by the Indian and Pakistani delegates.[116]...n 16 February 1948, the UN Palestine Commission reported to the Security Council that: "Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein."

Azzam told Alec Kirkbride "We will sweep them [the Jews] into the sea." Syrian president Shukri al-Quwatli told his people: "We shall eradicate Zionism."[121] King Farouk of Egypt told the American ambassador to Egypt that in the long run the Arabs would soundly defeat the Jews and drive them out of Palestine.[ - https://en.wikipedia.org

What the Left charges is that Israel is an illegal occupier (which seems to at least be inferred by the two-state advocates, including Putin), yet there never was a Palestinian state, and the Jews regaining their homeland was a result of being conquered by "occupiers," and who (from what I see) themselves were conquered (due to disobedience to God) , and thru a succession of which the Jewish state by born within their homeland, yet there remaineth yet more land to be possessed from present occupants.


Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until after the 1967 Six-Day War and Israel's capture of the West Bank. - https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-claim-to-the-land-of-israel

"This map [below] shows modern Israel compared to what ancient Israel actually looked like at some point. The land God called Joshua to take was much larger."

"The big difference is that the West Bank, as well as the eastern side of the Jordan River, is not part of modern Israel."




Source: https://www.quora.com/How-does-modern-day-Israel-compare-to-the-conquered-lands-as-described-in-the-book-of-Joshua-Old-Testament/answer Steve-Page-96

For many more maps: http://www.jewishwikipedia.info/israelmaps.html

Map below showing the status of Israel and the Israeli-occupied territories as of 2018:



The Jews regaining much of their ancient homeland and and statehood after approx 2500 years of not possessing it, losing it to different conquers/occupiers, and with dispersals, is unique, and providential, glory to God who shall yet manifestly answer this question:

ISRAEL: CHOSEN OR FORGOTTEN?

The Status of Arabs in Israel

10/11/2023, 10:45:19 AM · 5 of 11
daniel1212 to daniel1212

Rather than being unjust occupiers of "Palestinian" land, under overt supernatural attestation of Divine command, the Jews conquered a generationally wicked nation group due to being evil, exterminating most (though DNA finds more than 90 percent of the genetic ancestry of modern Lebanese being derived from ancient Canaanites, yet genes are not the same as culture, which can radically evolve over the years while genes can remain unchanged), due to disobedience, the Jews lost their historical land to conquerors, and via a succession of which they received most their land back, but not all that was promised them.

Excerpts of research:

Israel existed as a Monarchy under the reigns of Saul, David, and Solomon, yet due to disobedience the country later split into two separate kingdoms: Israel (Ephraim) and Judah. The Northern Kingdom of Israel was destroyed around 720 BCE, being conquered by the Neo-Assyrian Empire. Later, Jewish revolts against the Babylonians led to the destruction of Judah in 586 BCE, under king Nebuchadnezzar II.
Neo-Assyrian Empire grew to dominate the ancient Near East throughout much of the 8th and 7th centuries BC and ruled over all of Mesopotamia, the Levant and Egypt, as well as parts of Anatolia, Arabia and modern-day Iran and Armenia.
 Despite being at the peak of its power, the empire experienced a swift and violent fall in the late 7th century BC, destroyed by a Babylonian uprising and an invasion by the Medes, an ancient Iranian people who inhabited an area known as Media between western and northern Iran. In the 7th century BC, all of western Iran and some other territories were under Median rule, but their precise geographic extent remains unknown.[4]
After the fall of Assyria between 616 BC and 609 BC, a unified Median state was formed, which together with Babylonia, Lydia, and ancient Egypt became one of the four major powers of the ancient Near East. After Cyrus's victory against Astyages, the Medes were subjected to their close kin, the Persians.[
From the early 6th century BC onwards, several Persian states dominated the region, beginning with the Medes and non-Persian Neo-Babylonian Empire, then their successor the Achaemenid Empire known as the first Persian Empire, conquered in the late 4th century BC by the very short-lived Macedonian Empire of Alexander the Great, and then successor kingdoms such as Ptolemaic Egypt and the Seleucid state in Western Asia.
After a century of hiatus, the idea of the Persian Empire was revived by the Parthians in the 3rd century BC—and continued by their successors, the Sassanids from the 3rd century AD. This empire dominated sizable parts of what is now the Asian part of the Middle East and continued to influence the rest of the Asiatic and African Middle East region, until the Arab Muslim conquest of Persia in the mid-7th century AD. Between the 1st century BC and the early 7th century AD, the region was completely dominated by the Romans and the Parthians and Sassanids on the other hand, which often culminated in various Roman-Persian Wars over the seven centuries. Eastern Rite, Church of the East Christianity took hold in Persian-ruled Mesopotamia, particularly in Assyria from the 1st century AD onwards, and the region became a center of a flourishing Syriac–Assyrian literary tradition.
Greek and Roman Empire. In 66–63 BC, the Roman general Pompey conquered much of the Middle East.[21] The Roman Empire united the region with most of Europe and North Africa in a single political and economic unit. Even areas not directly annexed were strongly influenced by the Empire, which was the most powerful political and cultural entity for centuries. Though Roman culture spread across the region, the Greek culture and language first established in the region by the Macedonian Empire continued to dominate throughout the Roman period.
As the Christian religion spread throughout the Roman and Persian Empires, it took root in the Middle East, and cities such as Alexandria and Edessa became important centers of Christian scholarship. By the 5th century, Christianity was the dominant religion in the Middle East, with other faiths (gradually including heretical Christian sects) being actively repressed. The Middle East's ties to the city of Rome were gradually severed as the Empire split into East and West, with the Middle East tied to the new Roman capital of Constantinople. The subsequent Fall of the Western Roman Empire therefore, had minimal direct impact on the region.
Byzantine Empire The Eastern Roman Empire, today commonly known as the Byzantine Empire, ruling from the Balkans to the Euphrates, became increasingly defined by and dogmatic about Christianity, gradually creating religious rifts between the doctrines dictated by the establishment in Constantinople and believers in many parts of the Middle East. By this time, Greek had become the 'lingua franca' of the region, although ethnicities such as the Syriacs and the Hebrew continued to exist. Under Byzantine/Greek rule the area of the Levant met an era of stability and prosperity.
In the 5th century, the Middle East was separated into small, weak states; the two most prominent were the Sasanian Empire of the Persians in what is now Iran and Iraq, and the Byzantine Empire in Anatolia (modern-day Turkey) and the Levant. The Byzantines and Sasanians fought with each other a reflection of the rivalry between the Roman Empire and the Persian Empire seen during the previous five hundred years. The Byzantine-Sasanian rivalry was also seen through their respective cultures and religions. The Byzantines considered themselves champions of Hellenism and Christianity. Meanwhile, the Sasanians thought themselves heroes of ancient Iranian traditions and of the traditional Persian religion, Zoroastrianism.
Territorial wars soon became common, with the Byzantines and Sasanians fighting over upper Mesopotamia and Armenia and key cities that facilitated trade from Arabia, India, and China.[27] Byzantium, as the continuation of the Eastern Roman Empire, continued control of the latter's territories in the Middle East. Since 527, this included Anatolia, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, and Egypt. But in 603 the Sasanians invaded, conquering Damascus and Egypt. It was Emperor Heraclius who was able to repel these invasions, and in 628 he replaced the Sasanian Great King with a more docile one. But the fighting weakened both states, leaving the stage open to a new power.
The nomadic Bedouin tribes dominated the Arabian desert, where they worshiped idols and remained in small clans tied together by kinship. Urbanization and agriculture was limited in Arabia, save for a few regions near the coast. Mecca and Medina (then called Yathrib) were two such cities that were important hubs for trade between Africa and Eurasia.
While the Byzantine Roman and Sassanid Persian empires were both weakened by warfare (602–628), a new power in the form of Islam grew in the Middle East. In a series of rapid Muslim conquests, Arab armies, led by the Caliphs and skilled military commanders such as Khalid ibn al-Walid, swept through most of the Middle East, taking more than half of Byzantine territory and completely engulfing the Persian lands. In Anatolia, they were stopped in the Siege of Constantinople (717–718) by the Byzantines, who were helped by the Bulgarians.
The Byzantine provinces of Roman Syria, North Africa, and Sicily, however, could not mount such a resistance, and the Muslim conquerors swept through those regions. At the far west, they crossed the sea taking Visigothic Hispania before being halted in southern France in the Battle of Tours by the Franks. At its greatest extent, the Arab Empire was the first empire to control the entire Middle East, as well three-quarters of the Mediterranean region, the only other empire besides the Roman Empire to control most of the Mediterranean Sea.[32] It would be the Arab Caliphates of the Middle Ages that would first unify the entire Middle East as a distinct region and create the dominant ethnic identity that persists today.
Much of North Africa became a peripheral area to the main Muslim centres in the Middle East, but Iberia (Al-Andalus) and Morocco soon broke away from this distant control and founded one of the world's most advanced societies at the time, along with Baghdad in the eastern Mediterranean. Between 831 and 1071, the Emirate of Sicily was one of the major centres of Islamic culture in the Mediterranean. After its conquest by the Normans the island developed its own distinct culture with the fusion of Arab, Western, and Byzantine influences.
Motivated by religion and conquest, the kings of Europe launched a number of Crusades to try to roll back Muslim power and retake the Holy Land. The Crusades were unsuccessful but were far more effective in weakening the already tottering Byzantine Empire. They also rearranged the balance of power in the Muslim world as Egypt once again emerged as a major power.
The dominance of the Arabs came to a sudden end in the mid-11th century with the arrival of the Seljuq Turks, migrating south from the Turkic homelands in Central Asia. They conquered Persia, Iraq (capturing Baghdad in 1055), Syria, Palestine, and the Hejaz. Egypt held out under the Fatimid caliphs until 1169, when it too fell to the Turks.
Despite massive territorial losses in the 7th century, the Christian Byzantine Empire continued to be a potent military and economic force in the Mediterranean, preventing Arab expansion into much of Europe. The Seljuqs' defeat of the Byzantine military in the Battle of Manzikert in the 11th century and settling in Anatolia effectively marked the end of Byzantine power. The Seljuks ruled most of the Middle East region for the next 200 years, but their empire soon broke up into a number of smaller sultanates.
Christian Western Europe staged a remarkable economic and demographic recovery in the 11th century since its nadir in the 7th century. The fragmentation of the Middle East allowed joined forces, mainly from England, France, and the emerging Holy Roman Empire, to enter the region. In 1095, Pope Urban II responded to pleas from the flagging Byzantine Empire and summoned the European aristocracy to recapture the Holy Land for Christianity. In 1099 the knights of the First Crusade captured Jerusalem and founded the Kingdom of Jerusalem, which survived until 1187, when Saladin, the founder of the Ayyubid dynasty, retook the city. Smaller crusader kingdoms and fiefdoms survived until 1291.
Mongol rule... societal clashing occurred between traditionalists who wished to retain their nomadic culture and Mongols moving towards sedentary agriculture. All of this led to the fragmentation of the empire in 1260.
The Mongols eventually retreated in 1335, but the chaos that ensued throughout the empire deposed the Seljuq Turks. In 1401, the region was further plagued by the Turko-Mongol, Timur, and his ferocious raids. By then, another group of Turks had arisen as well, the Ottomans. Based in Anatolia, by 1566 they would conquer the Iraq-Iran region, the Balkans, Greece, Byzantium, most of Egypt, most of north Africa, and parts of Arabia, unifying them under the Ottoman Empire. The rule of the Ottoman sultans marked the end of the Medieval (Postclassical) Era in the Middle East.
The Ottoman Empire (1299–1918)..The Ottomans united the whole region under one ruler for the first time since the reign of the Abbasid caliphs of the 10th century, and they kept control of it for 400 years, despite brief intermissions created by the Iranian Safavids and Afsharids.[38] By this time the Ottomans also held Greece, the Balkans, and most of Hungary, setting the new frontier between east and west far to the north of the Danube. Regions such as Albania and Bosnia saw many conversions to Islam, but Ottoman Europe was not culturally absorbed into the Muslim world.
By 1699, the Ottomans had been driven out of Hungary, Poland-Lithuania and parts of the western Balkans in the Great Turkish War. In the Great Divergence, Europe had overtaken the Muslim world in wealth, population and technology.
The industrial revolution and growth of capitalism magnified the divergence, and from 1768 to 1918, the Ottomans gradually lost territory. Greece, Serbia, Romania, and Bulgaria achieved independence during the 19th century, and the Ottoman Empire became known as the "sick man of Europe", increasingly under the financial control of European powers. Domination soon turned to outright conquest: the French annexed Algeria in 1830 and Tunisia in 1878 and the British occupied Egypt in 1882, though it remained under nominal Ottoman sovereignty. In the Balkan Wars of 1912–13 the Ottomans were driven out of Europe altogether, except for the city of Constantinople and its hinterland.
The British also established effective control of the Persian Gulf, and the French extended their influence into Lebanon and Syria. In 1912, the Italians seized Libya and the Dodecanese islands, just off the coast of the Ottoman heartland of Anatolia. The Ottomans turned to Germany to protect them from the western powers, but the result was increasing financial and military dependence on Germany... Enver Bey's alliance with Germany, which he considered the most advanced military power in Europe, was enabled by British demands that the Ottoman Empire cede their formal capital Edirne (Adrianople) to the Bulgarians after losing the First Balkan War, which the Turks saw as a betrayal by Britain.
The British saw the Ottomans as the weak link in the enemy alliance, and concentrated on knocking them out of the war. When a direct assault failed at Gallipoli in 1916, they turned to fomenting revolution in the Ottoman domains, exploiting the awakening force of Arab, Armenian, and Assyrian nationalism against the Ottomans. The British found an ally in Sharif Hussein, the hereditary ruler of Mecca believed by many to be a descendant of Muhammad, who led an Arab Revolt against Ottoman rule, after being promised independence. .
The Entente, won the war and the Ottoman Empire was abolished with most of its territories ceded to Britain and France; Turkey just managed to survive.The war transformed the region in terms of shattering Ottoman power which was supplanted by increased British and French involvement; the creation of the Middle Eastern state system as seen in Turkey and Saudi Arabia; the emergence of explicitly more nationalist politics, as seen in Turkey and Egypt; and the expansion of oil industry, particularly in the Gulf States.
When the Ottoman Empire surrendered to the Allies in 1918, the Arab patriots did not get what they had expected. Islamic activists of more recent times have described it as an Anglo-French betrayal. The governments of the European Entente had concluded a secret treaty before the armistice, the Sykes–Picot Agreement, between the United Kingdom and France, with assent from the Russian Empire and the Kingdom of Italy, to define their mutually agreed spheres of influence and control in an eventual partition of the Ottoman Empire.
The agreement was based on the premise that the Triple Entente would achieve success in defeating the Ottoman Empire during World War I and formed part of a series of secret agreements contemplating its partition. The agreement allocated to the UK control of what is today southern Israel and Palestine, Jordan and southern Iraq, and an additional small area that included the ports of Haifa and Acre to allow access to the Mediterranean. France was to control southeastern Turkey, the Kurdistan Region, Syria and Lebanon.
As a result of the included Sazonov–PalĂ©ologue Agreement, Russia was to get Western Armenia in addition to Constantinople and the Turkish Straits already promised under the 1915 Constantinople Agreement. Italy assented to the agreement in 1917 via the Agreement of Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne and received southern Anatolia.[8] The Palestine region, with a smaller area than the later Mandatory Palestine, was to fall under an "international administration".
Syria became a French protectorate as a League of Nations mandate. The Christian coastal areas were split off to become Lebanon, another French protectorate. Iraq and Palestine became British mandated territories. Iraq became the "Kingdom of Iraq" and one of Sharif Hussein's sons, Faisal, was installed as the King of Iraq. Iraq incorporated large populations of Kurds, Assyrians and Turkmens, many of whom had been promised independent states of their own.
The British had in 1917, endorsed the Balfour Declaration promising the international Zionist movement their support in re-creating the historic Jewish homeland in Palestine. Britain was granted a Mandate for Palestine on 25 April 1920 at the San Remo Conference, and, on 24 July 1922, this mandate was approved by the League of Nations. Palestine became the "British Mandate of Palestine" and was placed under direct British administration. The Jewish population of Palestine, consisting overwhelmingly of recent migrants from Europe, numbered less than 8 percent in 1918. Under the British mandate, Zionist settlers were granted wide rein to immigrate initially, buy land from absentee landlords, set up a local government and later establish the nucleus of a state all under the protection of the British Army, which brutally suppressed multiple Palestinian Arab revolts in the years that followed, including in 1936
The Territory East of the Jordan River and west of Iraq was also declared a British Mandate when the Council of the League of Nations passed the British written Transjordan Memorandum on 16 September 1922. Most of the Arabian peninsula, including the Holy cities of Mecca and Medina, though not incorporated into either a British or French colonial mandate, fell under the control of another British ally, Ibn Saud, who in 1932, founded the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.
Sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Middle_East; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Eastern_empires; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E2%80%93Picot_Agreement

rather than being unjust occupiers of "Palestinian" land, under overt supernatural attestation of Divine command, the Jews conquered a generationally wicked nation group due to being evil, exterminating most. Later, due to disobedience, the Jews lost their historical land to conquerors, yet with  a remnant of Jews always being present, along  with Arabs  later Muslims,  albeit with some Canaanite DNA, with no legal title to the land occupied, such as allocated by a government) and via a succession of which they received most their land back, but not all that was promised them. From what I see, the people latter called "Palestinian" may be  due to Israel's failure to utterly drive out the Canaanites, and who could have later had their own state, along with the Jewsbut rejected the US partition plan.

When Jews began to immigrate to Palestine in large numbers in 1882, fewer than 250,000 Arabs lived there, and the majority of them had arrived in recent decades. Palestine was never an exclusively Arab country, although Arabic gradually became the language of most the population after the Muslim invasions of the seventh century. No independent Arab or Palestinian state ever existed in Palestine. When the distinguished Arab-American historian, Princeton University Prof. Philip Hitti, testified against partition before the Anglo-American Committee in 1946, he said: "There is no such thing as 'Palestine' in history, absolutely not." In fact, Palestine is never explicitly mentioned in the Koran, rather it is called "the holy land" (al-Arad al-Muqaddash).

Prior to partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted:
We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.
In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: "There is no such country [as Palestine]! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria."... 
Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until after the 1967 Six-Day War and Israel's capture of the West Bank. - https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-claim-to-the-land-of-israel

Yet may they, as with Jews, find peace and fellowship thru the risen Lord Jesus which both religions deny.

As for the poverty of Gaza, one  should not  be ignorant of the political purposes behind the "plight of the Palestinians" - which is a result of the Islamic 1948 intolerance of the Jews which Muslims sought to expel since 1948. Whereby some non-supporters of HAMAS are victims the the Islamic refusal to allow Palestinians to become citizens in their country (aside from Jordan), for political purposes. Jordan, and Syria.

Israel comprises just 0.2 percent of the Middle East’s land mass while Arabs of today controls 24 nations... 9 9½ percent of the ENTIRE Middle East land mass, and Muslims of most surrounding nations have sought to kill or expel push the Jews from their ancient national homeland even before as well as after 1947, when Muslims, which came to be called Palestinians - a name cognate with the Biblical Hebrew PəlÄ«ĆĄtÄ«m and used for the land of the Hebrews from at least 450 BC (Herodotus) while the residents of Judea and Samaria were considered Jordanians before 1948, including by themselves - rejected the UN Partition Plan which would have established independent Jewish and Arab states and an international control of Jerusalem. Before that, under the 1922 international mandate the British were to help the Jews reestablish their homeland in the territory.

The Muslims would not tolerated the existence of the State of Israel in 1948 since the Arab community was still seeking to control the entirety of the Palestine Mandate itself, thus five Arab armies attacked Israel when it declared independence. Only to henceforth cry victim when they lost this war and subsequent attempts to drive Israel into the sea as it were.

As a distinct people Palestinians never were a nation before 1948 (and only a quasi-state from 1988)  while about 20% of Israeli citizens are Arabs, mostly Muslims, with only 14% identifying as Palestinians, and live in homes they either own or rent, and are not required to perform mandatory military service. They have equal voting rights and Arabs currently hold 9 seats in the 120-seat Knesset and have also held various government posts, including one who served as Israel’s ambassador to Finland and the current deputy mayor of Tel Aviv. ( Myths & Facts Online - Human Rights in Israel and the Territories) And see The Real Reason Arabs in Israel Do Not Want to Live in 'Palestine'

Meanwhile, most Arab nations resist Palestinians immigration and refuse citizenship to them, due to their warring nature, being a destabilizing factor in both Israel and other nations, and for political purposes.

However, despite tiny Israel attempting to live in peaceful co-existence with its surrounding Muslim neighbors, even giving up almost all the land is conquered in victory over Muslim attempts to exterminate them, it is threatened and attacked by such, thus resulting in defensive actions which are invoked by liberals as unwarranted aggression, but which are warranted.

And while I am sure Israel has engaged in some wrong actions, and some discrimination exists, and is far from perfect tenants - including allowing “gay” parades,” they are the victims of unjust aggression by other nations.

...some ask why neighboring Egypt and Jordan don’t take them in.... The two countries, which flank Israel on opposite sides and share borders with Gaza and the occupied West Bank, respectively, have replied with a staunch refusal. Jordan already has a large Palestinian population. Jordan’s King Abdullah II gave a similar message a day earlier, saying, “No refugees in Jordan, no refugees in Egypt.” Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sissi...warned of an even more destabilizing scenario: the wrecking of Egypt and Israel’s 1979 peace deal. He said that with the presence of Palestinian militants, Sinai “would become a base for attacks on Israel. Israel would have the right to defend itself ... and would strike Egyptian territory.” https://apnews.com/article/palestinian-jordan-egypt-israel-refugee-502c06d004767d4b64848d878b66bd3d

And as for the GDP of Gaza, what do you think this would be if the were Chinese and lived peacefully with Israel? Meanwhile,

Hamas spends $100 million a year on military infrastructure.Khatib)... As the residents of the Gaza Strip endure daily hardships due to the dire economic situation in the enclave, their Hamas leaders spend over $100 million a year on the group’s military wing, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, according to estimates by both Israeli and Palestinian sources. Spending on digging tunnels accounts for some $40 million of that annual sum. By way of comparison, the budget of the last Hamas government, which dissolved in April 2014, was $530 million. - https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-spends-100-million-a-year-on-military-infrastructure/

And as for US aid, much of that is returned via purchases.

Israel ends up sacrificing far more value in return for the nearly $4 billion it annually receives from Washington. That’s because nearly all military aid to Israel—other than loan guarantees, which cost Washington nothing, the U.S. gives Israel no other kind of aid—consists of credits that go directly from the Pentagon to U.S. weapons manufacturers. In return, American payouts undermine Israel’s domestic defense industry, weaken its economy, and compromise the country’s autonomy—giving Washington veto power over everything from Israeli weapons sales to diplomatic and military strategy. When Washington meddles directly in Israel’s domestic affairs, as it does often these days, Israeli leaders who have lobbied for these payments—including current Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu—are simply reaping the rewards of their own penny-wise, pound-foolish efforts.
The Israeli military, often ranked as the fourth-most powerful in the world, has become an adjunct to American power in a crucial region in which the U.S. has lost the appetite for projecting military force. Israeli intelligence functions as America’s eyes and ears, not just in the Middle East but in other key strategic theaters like Russia and Central Asia and even parts of Latin America. Controlling access to the output of Israel’s powerful high-tech sector is a strategic advantage for the U.S. that alone is worth many multiples of the credits Israel receives. - https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/end-american-aid-israel [and that source is actually opposing the amount of aid.]

The only option here is to contend that the US should be an isolationist country.

Friends with Benefits: Why the U.S.-Israeli Alliance Is Good for America by Michael Eisenstadt, David Pollock ...
. The U.S.-Israeli alliance now contributes more than ever to American security, as bilateral cooperation to deal with both military and nonmilitary challenges has grown in recent years... it is a two-way partnership whose benefits to the United States have been substantial. The other, less tangible costs of the U.S.-Israeli alliance -- mainly, damage to Washington's reputation in Arab and Muslim countries, a problem also caused by American interventions and decades of U.S. support for autocratic leaders in the Middle East -- pale in comparison with the economic, military, and political gains it affords Washington.
Israel has also emerged as an important niche defense supplier to the U.S. military, with sales growing from $300 million per year before September 11 to $1.1 billion in 2006, due to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Israel's military research and development complex has pioneered many cutting-edge technologies that are transforming the face of modern war, including cyberweapons, unmanned vehicles (such as land robots and aerial drones), sensors and electronic warfare systems, and advanced defenses for military vehicles. - https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/friends-benefits-why-us-israeli-alliance-good-america
The U.S.-Israeli economic and commercial relationship now spans IT, bio-tech, life sciences, health care solutions, energy, pharmaceuticals, food and beverage, defense industries, cyber-security, and aviation, to name just a few sectors.
Critical components of leading American high-tech products are invented and designed in Israel, making these American companies more competitive and more profitable globally. Cisco, Intel, Motorola, Applied Materials, and HP are just a few examples.
Israel is home to more than 2,500 U.S. firms employing some 72,000 Israelis, according to an estimate by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. Thousands more jobs are supported indirectly by these employers.
The Massachusetts Example
The New England-Israel Business Council released a study that shows that Israeli-founded businesses have generated about 9,000 jobs in Massachusetts alone, and indirectly support an additional 18,000. These companies represent nearly four per
cent of the state’s GDP. And that is just one state. In Beersheva – less than an hour’s train ride from Tel Aviv –American and Israeli companies are working side-by-side at CyberSpark. It is a fast-growing, world-class, hi-tech office park, adjacent to a top academic institution, Ben-Gurion University of the Negev, and not far from where critical public-sector institutions, such as the IDF’s cyber and intelligence units, will soon be located. This unique eco-system is rapidly attracting more American companies to take part in developing the defenses that will protect the new economy. - https://il.usembassy.gov/our-relationship/policy-history/fact-sheet-u-s-israel-economic-relationship/

 One Arabs citizens of Israel:

Roughly 21% of Israel’s more than nine million citizens are Arabs. The vast majority of the Israeli Arabs - approximately 83% - are Muslims, 9% are Druze, and 8% are Christian. Some 52% of the Arab citizens live in northern Israel, 20% in the “Triangle” region in the center of the country, 18% in the Negev, and 8% in the mixed cities (Acre, Haifa, Jaffa, Ramla, Lod, Nof Hagalil and Maalot-Tarshiha), 1% in the Jerusalem Corridor (including West Jerusalem) and 2% in the rest of the country.
Arabs in Israel have equal voting rights; it is one of the few places in the Middle East where Arab women may vote.
...
The sole legal distinction between Jewish and Arab citizens of Israel is that the latter are not required to serve in the Israeli army. This was to spare Arab citizens the need to bear arms against their brethren. Nevertheless, many Arabs have volunteered for military duty – more than 1,000 in 2020 – and the Druze and Circassian communities are subject to the draft.
Some economic and social gaps between Israeli Jews and Arabs result from the latter not serving in the military...
In 2020, the Jewish People Policy Institute (JPPI) reported “a dramatic rise in the share of Arab Israelis who define their primary identity as ‘Israeli,’ and a concomitant sharp decline in the share who self-identify as ‘Palestinian.’”...
The national election of 2021 was notable for a radical change in Israeli politics, with the Ra’am Party becoming the first Arab party to join a governing coalition. ... It could have brought down the government at any time if it was dissatisfied with its direction. .... - https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-status-of-arabs-in-israel

And now, as of 11-4-23, the Israel, as it periodically has since its founding in 1948, is once again foundtself fighting for its survival. And it remains that Israel, not the “Palestinians” is the entity which has the best historical, ancient claim to statehood of its territory, having existed as a kingdom, which land it lost due to disobedience to its covenant with God.

Which - unlike Muhammad’s “revelations” and his wars of conquest, was agreed to after profound supernatural demonstrations of Divine power, leaving no mistake as to who was commanding Israel to exterminate the generally wicked Canaanites from the land God chose for His people.

But, as God warned, which the land and statehood it lost due to disobedience to God, which land saw a succession of conquers, the last of which gave the Jews a portion of its historical land back, as part of the promise of God.

But which militant Palestinian Muslims refused to tolerate, refusing the US partition plan, and instead have sought the obliteration of the Jews since, and thus HAMAS and Hezbollah, among other Palestinian militant groups, staunchly oppose the Oslo Accords, and consider the Abrahamic accords to be traitorous.

Yet even with Islam violent wars have much been a historical constant. And which is consistent with the prophecy given to the mother of the Arabs regarding her son. the product of Abraham yielding to his barren wife with a dead womb to have a child thru her, being impatient, for God had promised a child to Abram and Sarah of a son who would be the progenitor of a vast innumerable people. Genesis 15:1–16)

And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren. (Genesis 16:12)

Yet, while being the clear victim of unjust attacks by recalcitrant warring Muslims, Israel itself is suffering chastisement via the wicked, which serves as a sword of such, (1Psalms 17:13) having much adopted Western immorality, and overall rejecting the Messiah who came as foretold, as spiritual savor, preceding the conversion of Israel, as a remnant, and the Lord Christ’s physical rule in which the Jews will worship the Lord of glory.

So may all, including all Arabs, as with Jews, now find peace and fellowship thru the risen Lord Jesus which both religions deny. For, as in the past, the only hope of peace was born in the Middle East.



Supplemental:

The Hamas Covenant or Hamas Charter, formally known in English as the Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement, was originally issued on 18 August 1988 and outlines the founding identity, stand, and aims of Hamas (the Islamic Resistance Movement).[1] A new charter was issued by Hamas leader Khaled Mashal on 1 May 2017 in Doha.[2]

The original Charter identified Hamas as the Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine and declares its members to be Muslims who "fear God and raise the banner of Jihad in the face of the oppressors". The charter states that "our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious" and calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestinian Territories,[3] and the obliteration or dissolution of Israel.[4][5] It emphasizes the importance of jihad, stating in article 13, "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."[6] The charter also states that Hamas is humanistic, and tolerant of other religions as long as they "stop disputing the sovereignty of Islam in this region".[7] The Charter adds that "renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion [of Islam]".[1] The original charter was criticized for its violent language against all Jews, which many commentators have characterized as incitement to genocide.[8][9]

The 2017 charter accepted for the first time the idea of a Palestinian state within the borders that existed before 1967 and rejected recognition of Israel, which it terms as the "Zionist enemy".[2] It advocates such a state as transitional but also advocates the "liberation of all of Palestine".[14][15] The new document also states that the group does not seek war with the Jewish people but only against Zionism which it holds responsible for "occupation of Palestine".[16] Mashal also stated that Hamas was ending its association with the Muslim Brotherhood.[14] After a new charter was scheduled to be issued in May 2017, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's office issued a statement in which it accused Hamas of trying to fool the world and also asked it to stop its terror activities for a true change.[17]

Hamas leadership's actions and terminology has remained antisemitic. An example being, Hamas leader, Fathi Hamad's 2019 statement, who said "You should attack every Jew possible in all the world and kill them".[38][39][40][41] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Charter

On the destruction of Israel:

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (Preamble)

The exclusive Moslem nature of the area:

"The land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf [Holy Possession] consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. No one can renounce it or any part, or abandon it or any part of it." (Article 11)

"Palestine is an Islamic land... Since this is the case, the Liberation of Palestine is an individual duty for every Moslem wherever he may be." (Article 13)

The call to jihad:

"The day the enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In the face of the Jews' usurpation, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised." (Article 15)

"Ranks will close, fighters joining other fighters, and masses everywhere in the Islamic world will come forward in response to the call of duty, loudly proclaiming: 'Hail to Jihad!'. This cry will reach the heavens and will go on being resounded until liberation is achieved, the invaders vanquished and Allah's victory comes about." (Article 33)

Rejection of a negotiated peace settlement:

"[Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility." (Article 13)

Condemnation of the Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty:

"Egypt was, to a great extent, removed from the circle of struggle [against Zionism] through the treacherous Camp David Agreement. The Zionists are trying to draw other Arab countries into similar agreements in order to bring them outside the circle of struggle. ...Leaving the circle of struggle against Zionism is high treason, and cursed be he who perpetrates such an act." (Article 32)

Anti-Semitic incitement:

The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him." (Article 7)

The charter makes a point of the ideological difference between Hamas, with its radical Islamic world view, and the secularly-oriented The Palestine Liberation Organization, but pays lip service to the need for Palestinian unity needed to face the Jewish enemy. It notes that an Islamic world view completely contradicts The Palestine Liberation Organization’s secular orientation and the idea of a secular Palestinian state. Nevertheless, notes the charter, Hamas is prepared to aid and support every “nationalist trend” working “to liberate Palestine” and is not interested in creating schisms and disagreements (Article 27). - https://embassies.gov.il/holysee/AboutIsrael/the-middle-east/Pages/The%20Hamas-Covenant.aspx​

  Also see https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/hamas-words-and-deeds#:~:text=In%20its%20original%201988%20charter,%2C%20religious%20or%20sectarian%20grounds.%E2%80%9D

Actual document: Hamas Covenant 1988 The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement 18 August 1988 - https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp




































































































Sunday, September 24, 2023

Survey Questions Used by USDA to Assess Household Food Security (a contrived crisis)


Survey Questions Used by USDA to Assess Household Food Security [Source of alarming stats such as "Almost 25% of American adults are food insecure. Answer these:] USDA ^ | USDA https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-nutrition-assistance/food-security-in-the-u-s/measurement/#survey

Food security for a household means access by all members at all times to enough food for an active, healthy life. Food security includes at a minimum:

The ready availability of nutritionally adequate and safe foods. Assured ability to acquire acceptable foods in socially acceptable ways...

Households that report three or more conditions [in the span of 12 months] that indicate food insecurity are classified as "food insecure.".. The questions cover a wide range of severity of food insecurity....

Survey Questions Used by USDA to Assess Household Food Security

1. "We worried whether our food would run out before we got money to buy more." Was that often, sometimes, or never true for you in the last 12 months?

2. "The food that we bought just didn't last and we didn't have money to get more." Was that often, sometimes, or never true for you in the last 12 months?

3. "We couldn't afford to eat balanced meals." Was that often, sometimes, or never true for you in the last 12 months?

4. In the last 12 months, did you or other adults in the household ever cut the size of your meals or skip meals because there wasn't enough money for food? (Yes/No)

5. (If yes to question 4) How often did this happen—almost every month, some months but not every month, or in only 1 or 2 months?

6. In the last 12 months, did you ever eat less than you felt you should because there wasn't enough money for food? (Yes/No)

7. In the last 12 months, were you ever hungry, but didn't eat, because there wasn't enough money for food? (Yes/No)

8. In the last 12 months, did you lose weight because there wasn't enough money for food? (Yes/No)

9. In the last 12 months did you or other adults in your household ever not eat for a whole day because there wasn't enough money for food? (Yes/No)

10. (If yes to question 9) How often did this happen—almost every month, some months but not every month, or in only 1 or 2 months?

(Questions 11-18 were asked only if the household included children age 0-17)

11. "We relied on only a few kinds of low-cost food to feed our children because we were running out of money to buy food." Was that often, sometimes, or never true for you in the last 12 months?

12. "We couldn't feed our children a balanced meal, because we couldn't afford that." Was that often, sometimes, or never true for you in the last 12 months?

13. "The children were not eating enough because we just couldn't afford enough food." Was that often, sometimes, or never true for you in the last 12 months?

14. In the last 12 months, did you ever cut the size of any of the children's meals because there wasn't enough money for food? (Yes/No)

15. In the last 12 months, were the children ever hungry but you just couldn't afford more food? (Yes/No)

16. In the last 12 months, did any of the children ever skip a meal because there wasn't enough money for food? (Yes/No)

17. (If yes to question 16) How often did this happen—almost every month, some months but not every month, or in only 1 or 2 months?

18. In the last 12 months did any of the children ever not eat for a whole day because there wasn't enough money for food? (Yes/No)

Considering the subjectivity in interpreting just what constitutes "enough money" (asked about 15 times) and "balanced meals," plus "worried;"

And given that most people exaggerate, including problems (I do not think that is an exaggeration), esp. when dealing with memory of past experiences as "wasn't enough money" (while a Study says authors exaggerate their findings in paper abstracts ,"

plus the scope of these answers on experiences being over the course of a whole year;

in addition to the exaggerated nature of a condition based upon affirming three or more negative experiences,

then "food insecurity" is a grossly misleading term, esp. as typically used, in which they also typically ignore the "wide range of severity of food insecurity" from Least severe to Most severe.

In which answering Yes or "sometimes" to questions such as,

1. Was this statement often, sometimes, or never true for you in the last 12 months? "We worried whether our food would run out before we got money to buy more," [“worry” simply does not necessarily mean that they live in need, especially as this covers 12 months]

7. In the last 12 months, were you ever hungry, but didn't eat, because there wasn't enough money for food? (Yes/No) [Ever hungry? When + where + how long? What food? In the past year!]

8. In the last 12 months, did you lose weight because there wasn't enough money for food? (Yes/No) [Everyone losesweight between meals, + it is easy for forget cash or card + be hungry for a bit]

can be used for claims such as,

"Study finds nearly 25% of Americans are food insecure." (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/one-in-four-americans-food-insecure/)

And, Almost 30 million Americans didn't have enough food to eat .(https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/31/us/food-insecurity-30-million-census-survey/index.html)

Study finds nearly 25% of Americans are food insecure MoneyWatch Nearly a quarter of U.S. adults sometimes don't get enough to eat...

Experts predicted America was racing towards a "looming hunger cliff." They were right, data shows (https://www.salon.com/2023/07/05/experts-predicted-america-was-racing-towards-a-looming-hunger-cliff-they-were-right-data-shows/)

Yet,

73% of Americans are overweight or obese (42%). But via another form of "cooking" (see thread)it is inferred (CBS) that hunger is a significant problem in the US (don't you experience hunger every day? Do you sometimes not know what you are going to eat? If you can answer Yes or sometimes to 3 of the USDA questions (from which I think the below claims are usually derived) at link covering the last 12 months, then you also can be said to be "food insecure.")

Aug 30, 2019 The Poorest 20% of Americans Are Richer on Average Than Most European Nations

And consider the top salaries of some of the orgs which make such claims:

Sep 6, 2022 — 1 in 8 kids in the United States are living with hunger. (https://www.nokidhungry.org/blog/how-many-kids-united-states-live-hunger)

The 18 most highly compensated employees [at nokidhungry.org] were reported to be:

  • $489,966:  William H Shore, Founder, Executive Chairman, Director

  • $487,040:  Thomas Nelson, President and CEO, Secretary

  • $358,427:  Peter Kaye, Former Chief, Revenue and Marketing (until 5/2019)

  • $314,035:  Charles Scofield, EVP

  • . [list continued]

34 million people are food insecure in the United States. That's millions of people facing hunger. (https://www.feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america)

1 in 8 children in America worry about their next meal (https://www.feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america/child-hunger-facts)

Executive Compensation at Feeding America (2021)
 137 employees [feedingamerica.org] received more than $100,000 in compensation with the 19 most highly compensated employees listed below:

  • $969,325:  Claire Babineaux-Fontenot, CEO

  • $485,738:  Katherine Fitzgerald, EVP and COO

  • $434,516:  Paul Henrys, Treasurer... [list continued]

  • The 19 employees listed above were compensated nearly $7 million which equates to an average compensation of $370,000....

A graphic showing 783 million people who don't know where their next meal will come from (https://www.savethechildren.org/us/what-we-do/emergency-response/hunger-and-famine-crisis)

Executive Compensation at Save the Children (2021) The 20 most highly compensated employees were reported to be:

  • $583,432:  Janti Soeripto, President and CEO

  • $490,272:  Mark K Shriver, SVP, US Programs

  • $488,891:  Eric Howell, EVP and COO

  • $457,335:  Greg Ferrante, CFO

  • $404,312: Jennifer Roberti, VP, Marketing, Communications, and Fundraising

  • $402,067:  Debbie Pollock-Berry, VP and Chief of HR 

  • . [list continued]

The 20 most highly compensated employees received more than $7 million in compensation.

Catholic Charities, with a billion in revenues, paid their president $521,554 and their CFO $310,000, last year. (https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2020/06/11/should-non-profit-us-food-bank-executives-earn-up-to-11-million-per-year/?sh=7ba37e3dd5ba)

Should Non-Profit U.S. Food Bank Executives Earn Nearly $1 Million Per Year?

Our auditors at OpenTheBooks.com reviewed Feeding America’s payroll disclosures and found Diana Aviv, CEO, made $1.1 million (2019). This amount included $347,209 from a previous employer and rolled into a new 457B plan which was distributed to her when she left the organization that year.

In the previous year, Feeding America paid Aviv compensation of $860,909.

In 2019, other executives at the organization also made a lot of money: President Matthew Knott ($561,842, up $89,224), Treasurer Paul Henrys ($412,105, up $15,162), and Chief Marketing & Communications Officer Catherine Davis ($344,166, up $17,161). Chief Supply Chain Officer William Thomas made nearly $600,000 between 2018 and 2019 before leaving the organization.

For comparison, four-star generals in the U.S. military earn $268,344 salaries and have hundreds of thousands of troops in their command. Catholic Charities, with a billion in revenues, paid their president $521,554 and their CFO $310,000, last year. — https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2020/06/11/should-non-profit-us-food-bank-executives-earn-up-to-11-million-per-year/?sh=25efebb5d5ba


Monday, August 21, 2023

Responses to some anti-theist railings, part 1.

 

Comments after my answer to:

Was God gambling with Satan in regards to job's loyalty? I'm a compulsive gambler. It's difficult enough handling that without having God as an example.

By no means was God gambling, for He that inhabits eternity and can see all things from that perspective (and knows what your choices will be, without forcing you against your will) knew what Job would do.

In contrast, it was the devil who was gambling (and induces you to). For his major premise (as manifest in other places) was that God was unworthy of being Job’s God - the ultimate source of security and object of spiritual affection and loyalty (thus the devil’s original sin of presuming he should sit as God, that God needed to “share the wealth” so to speak: as he also essentially told Eve: Is. 14:12–14; Gn. 3).

Therefore the devil’s minor premise was that Job only loved God because of blessings Job enjoyed. Thus the 2-stage challenge was, take them away and Job would reject God (and likely commit suicide), with the only restriction being that the devil could not take His life (which his wife recommended that Job take).
However, while Job certainly expressed his bewilderment at his lamentable condition which he protested, asking at least at least 66 questions, yet he did not deny His Creator or foolishly verbally charge Him with iniquity.
And after God reminded Job by asking him (some count 77) rhetorical questions, such as “Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?” (Job 38:31) then Job realized that God did care for him and was in control, and had a purpose, where Job stated,


I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee. Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not. Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes. (Job 42:2-6)


Thus the devil lost again, and will yet do so, for he will be done gambling until the very end:


And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:8-10)

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. (Romans 8:28)


Comments have been deleted by Quora, but not before I copied them, and the anti-theist charges, which are basically typical and repeated atheistic objections, have been overall summarized per content, though responded to them as verbatim in my replies. And additional comments by me are in [brackets].

[anti-theist[ So a god that claims to be good destroys the life of a poor man, kills his whole family simply to make the devil lose a bet? Yet your god is the one that created the devil and evil in the first place! Why is this not absolute proof that the god of Abraham is XXXXX if the bible is true?

No, God did not destroy the life of a poor man and killed his whole family just to make the devil lose, much less would be even any sort of proof (unmentionable) if the bible is true. But which comments are typical of ignorant atheism, and which often seems to be driven by an animus toward the idea of an ultimate authority.

First, the issue was whether faithfulness to God is warranted or not, with the devil (and atheists) on one side and the likes of Job on that other. Who showed that his faith could endure loss, that his faithfulness was not simply due to the blessings he received but was deeper than that. Many POWs (Jeremiah Denton, etc.) suffering torture for their country likewise proved their love for country could not be defeated by atheistic Communism.

Secondly, the trial also for the sake of the character of Job, who came to essentially see what atheists typically refuse to see, that if God is omnipotent and omniscient (as was conveyed by the many rhetorical questions), then He alone knows what all the effects will be of even your next breath or the flap of the wings of a butterfly, not only for this life but for Eternity. And who alone can and will make it all work out for Good, for the good of those who love God and thus love the Good. (Rm. 8:28).

Thus Job realized that God knew exactly what Job was going thru, and was in control (His hand on the thermostat s to speak), and would make it work out for good. Which God did even just as regards this life, blessing the latter end of Job abundantly more than his beginning in every respect relative to what He had lost. (Job 42:12)

Thus - going by just what the Bible says since that is the God you are opposing - your objection cannot be that the sufferings of God were not worth it, and that taking away family and good was unjust.

Which charges are illogical and absurd, for we are simply not omnipotent and omniscient and in no position to tell the One who gave life that He cannot take life, or charge that the relatively momentary losses of this life are unjust in the light of eternity. Unless we are omnipotent and omniscient.

We do not know if the children of Job were fit to be destroyed due to what they were doing and would do, or that (most likely) they held to the faith and character of the Godly father, and are in glory right now. In either case you cannot logically charge God with being unjust since you only have a fraction of the knowledge of the past, present and future and the scope of it, or the ability to determine it.

Going back to the devil; his original presumption) was essentially that the created is fit to be as God, and that God is unjust in requiring obedience in order to obtain blessing, and in punishing disobedience or bluffing about it; but that it is the right of the created to have the power and position of God. Which premise also eliminates mercy (not getting the evil you deserve) and grace (getting the good that you do not), since it presumes that having what other’s merited is the right of those who have/do not.

Thus the devil presumed in self-exaltation to put himself in the place of God, (Isaiah 14:12–20) and (being cast down for his unholy presumption) in Gn. 3:1–5 essentially told Eve that God was unjustly keeping something back from her, which was her right to have, and which would be hers by disobedience, rather than this resulting in the opposite, as God had forewarned. Gn. 3:1-7

For man will always makes someone or something his/her god, their ultimate source of security, and object of spiritual affection and allegiance, ultimately either the created or the Creator. And while God does not need anything (Psalms 50:7–12; Acts 17:25) it is only right and to man’s benefit that he choose the omnipotent and omniscient to be his God who is able to make all work out for the Good.

May God peradventure grant you "repentance to the acknowledging of the truth." (2 Timothy 2:25)

The devil was urged on by god who ruined the mans life and and killed his family, which less remained even though in the end the man got a new family.

No matter how you spin it, this is a huge wicked act by the biblical god.

Instead of a good and loving god the Bible god is shown to be a a cruel jealous one that by any normal standards would be considered clearly evil, telling his people to be happy as they kill kids and killing people without reasons or for such not wanting to have sex with his dead brothers wife.

You need to engage in mental gymnastics to accept such as anything less than evil :)

Just what is behind your fallacious charges and inability to reason objectively and see anything but what is read into the text (and refrain from angry vulgarity)? You conclusions are simply not warranted by the facts.

God did not tell people to be happy as they killed children (but foretold that the slayers of a wicked people would be: Psalms 137:9), nor did He kill or do anything “for no reason,” or one for simply not wanting to have sexual relations with his dead brothers wife (versus refusing - and possibly repeatedly - to provide her a child due to his own utterly selfish reasons, contrary to God’s command and that of Judah: Gn. 1:28; 38:1–10).

And just how is it unjust for a Creator to take away the lives of people the He created and gave life to, while replacing them with even more and better (at least in beauty)? You can only assume that Job as well as all involved would not now say that this was right and best in the light of all the facts, past and future.

Which means that you indeed must presume omniscience or that God is not, nor omnipotent, who makes all things work out for the good who choose the Good.

Which would mean that such angry unreason-able atheist tirades flows from either ignorance or is directed to a god that is not of the Bible.

But your response indicates that have been indoctrinated by such, and insist on reading into Scripture what anti-theists can only contrive to actually teach, in context.

But such a caricature serves a malevolent purpose.

People that you claim to be “wicked” are only wicked according to the bible. [atheist goes on to basically just double-down on his ranting accusations) He turns Lot’s wife into salt for no reason, for she is never told to not look back .

People that you claim to be “wicked” are only wicked according to the Bible.” And? If you are going to attack the God of the Bible then you must go by what the Bible says. Thus if the Bible says that the people slain were wicked, you simply cannot change that to mean there were not wicked in order charge God with injustice. That is simply illogical and untenable.

And contrary to your next instance of changing the Bible to serve your purpose, “O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones,” (Psalms 137:8,9)

This is not “Telling his followers to be happy as they kill children” as you charged, but that those (not the Jews) who executed what was just retaliation to Babylon would be happy. It would be like Jews in Hitler’s camps foretelling the satisfaction of Russians in executing just retaliation upon their persecutors.

Then you try to charge God with injustice as concerns Job, and selfish Onan, despite my showing you how your charges are fallacious and untenable in the light of the facts about the situation and of God. And which again shows you refuse to be reasoned with.

Then you example blindness with

He kills Lot’s wife, turns her into salt for no reason given. She was never even told to not look back. so she is not even breaking any rules,”

Yet the text plainly states that the angels laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters” and commanded them, “Escape for thy life; look not behind thee,… (Genesis 19:16,17)

Thus contrary to you, she is indeed told to not look back. yet she clearly disobeyed the expressed command of no less than manifest angels, and by looking back she evidenced she longed for that wicked place.

But of course they do not tell you that on anti-theist web sites whose lying charges you parrot.

Then we have your next charge:

Your omnipotent god chose mass extermination all because humans sinned. That included plentyof innocent children and multitudes of innocent animals. Yet as omnipotent he could chose another way to punish the sinners and exclude billion of innocent creatures.”

Yes, the Creator who gave life can take it, and here He punished people whose wickedness was great and every imagination of their thoughts was only evil continually, (Genesis 6:5) while delivering the innocent from becoming like their elders and perpetuating itself. And would include delivering animals [and children] from the perversions they were subject to.

Yet when God allows evil then atheists find fault with Him, as if they were omniscient and omnipotent! Which brings us to your next judgement on God:

Instead of a Good and loving god the bible is showing a cruel jealous god who driven by ego

Which is simply the logical fallacy of assuming what you have not and cannot establish. Which is that “a Good and loving god” is contrary to judging what is not “Good and loving,’ and which instead means that being Good and loving means that the Creator should not finally exterminate a people whose wickedness was great and every imagination of their thoughts was only evil continually.

But as said, if God did not, then atheists would object to that. You can argue that God should have rehabilitated them, though He gave them 120 years of Noah’s preaching before the Flood came, but that is also presuming that you know better than God what all the actions and effects are and will be of man. Which is indeed would be arrogant presumption.

Next,

Many Christians find at these difficult and troubling texts and engage in mental gymnastics to defend them

Which is irrelevant, for i provided you sound refutation of your ignorant and fallacious and presumptuous charges, and it you who must resort to mental gymnastics in order to read what you want into and out of Scripture.

Yet as you continue to demonstrate unreason-able intransigence should i continue?

If find it strange for you try to justify killing innocent children and billion of animals.

Which response is simply the “argument by outrage” tactic, which effectively has as its premise that it is outrageous for the Creator who gave life - and knows what all the effects will be - to also take it, exterminating the wicked and delivering the innocent.

Which means that it is your premise that is outrageous.

As has been and will be further shown, by the grace of God, despite your blind stubborn and absurd attempt to indict God as if you were omniscient and omnipotent.

Next:

let us presume that those people were indeed wicked.”

No, there is nothing hypothetical here: God says the “wickedness of man was only evil continually.”

Let me remind you of what I said before, that since you are attacking the God of the Bible for what the Bible says He did, then you must actually stick with what it says, and not attack or impugn the integrity of the Bible, which would be a different debate.

Do you really actually believe the infants were wicked also?”

Do you honestly read what I had said? “He punished people whose wickedness was great and every imagination of their thoughts was only evil continually, (Genesis 6:5) while delivering the innocent from becoming like their elders and perpetuating itself. And would include delivering animals [and children] from the perversions they were subject to.”

Both were most likely subject to sexual and physical abuse, and yet when God does not deal prevent or judge such promptly I am sure you would find fault with Him for that.

Next:

Being omniscient and omnipotent means he could chose ANY way to annihilate the sinners. Vaporize the, sickness, etc. or even compel them to repent. Instead, he wanted to kill billion of innocent creatures”

Meaning you find fault with the method God used to deal with man (who misused what God gave, and broke His good laws), based upon the premise that He could have acted differently in His omniscience and omnipotence.

But which presumes you know better than God, that somehow toasting them alive (thus having no space to repent) or dying of sickness would be better than drowning (not much of a choice), or force them to repent and thus deny man the freedom to make choices (see Theodicy).

And as for billions of innocent creatures, aside from drowning what loss did they suffer? A lion missing out their next meal chomping down a zebra, or the latter missing out on being part of the food chain? Or do you suppose the only-evil people took care of pets? Man is the reason of their pain and abuse, and they are not to be abused but are here to provide for man.

All of which postulations presume you know better than an omniscient and omnipotent God - who knows what man will chose and the consequences of even your next breath, for this life and the next - which means (once again) that you must presume omniscience.

Consider further the utter irrationality of your argument: The Creator gives life, breath and all good things, but He has no right - based upon what He knows and can do - to take the same?

Really?

Without the Creator there would be no life, and value to it, nor even the moral sense that taking innocent like is wrong, and thus nothing to take nor even the moral sense regarding the taking of it!

Thus you should thank God for your moral revulsion to God taking innocent life. However, this revulsion is based upon the premise that life is valuable and thus (in the Bible) those who take innocent life must lose theirs (based upon multiple eye-witness and executed at the hands of all the people via stoning), as man has no right to take innocent life. But why?

Knowing how many lives have turned out today, then if we could go back in time and then we might not only justify preventing the conception of some lives (as proabortionists do) but also the taking of the same (Stalin, etc.), since they would turn out to be destructive of life or greatly suffer.

However, the reason man is wrong for taking innocent life is because he neither,

*created life nor can give it in the eternal realm,

*can foresee, in all depth and detail, how a life will turn out,

*has the power to orchestra all the actions and works that man is allowed to engage in to work out for Good.

Thus you cannot rationally impugn iniquity to God for taking innocent life or man and animals unless you as establish that,

*God does not know in all depth and detail what all the effects will be of our actions for time and for eternity;

*God is not able to make all work out for the good of those who love God and thus love the Good;

*It was not better in the light of all that can be know that God acted as He did, including delivering the innocent from becoming like their damnable parents, and rehabilitating the earth. And making animals to be fertilizer and fuel for man.

*Man is omniscient and omnipotent and knows and can do the above

*The creator who gave life and all good things has not the right to take it, and cannot recreate it.

Next,

Also,a omniscient and omnipotent being can also NEVER claim he did not know this evil condition would result, thus this judgment of the evil means he planned to drowned the evil and the kids and billions of innocent animals.”

God did indeed know what would happen, as has been continually affirmed, yet knowing what man will do does not translate into forcing man to do it. [Again, see Theodicy and response to another poster after this one].

But regardless, it remains that you cannot rationally impugn iniquity to God for His actions or inactions unless you can establish what I listed above, and presume omniscience and omnipotence for man. Which makes man to be as God, which is simply irrational.

Next,

Many Christians change the definition of omniscient and omnipotent at will...mental gymnastics .

Which response is that of recourse to a irrelevant diversionary strawman, since I did not do at all what you describe even if some others many.

Instead I showed that it is you who must engage in gymnastics, arguing against God as if He was not omniscient and omnipotent and then arguing against Him for being so, which is all so much railing irrationality.

If fact consistent with what you have argued so far, unless God does what you believe is right and when you demand that He do it then you would judge Him as if you were omniscient and omnipotent.

So it have been good to see your vain arguments exposed as spurious, spurious, which I do hope actually helps you.

However as we are both intransigent in our positions and as this comment section is poorly set up for debates, then instead of much more extended debate here I would rather format this exchange and post this to a forum of my choice (maybe http://www.freerepublic.com) so that others may see it and respond.

So once again we see more intransigent irrationality. You write:

Your god cannot be omniscient and omnipotent for that means that god created Adan and Eve to eat the fruit. leaving them with no free will, no choice to do anything else”

Yet nowhere does God say that He did not know, yet neither does knowing what man will do mean that man can not choose to do it. [Again, see Theodicy and response to another poster after this one].

IF I know that you are going to continue to resort to such spurious objections then that does not mean I am making you do it against your will, though I provide you the situation to do it.

Next,

Being omniscient and omnipotent means he wanted to kill the all the firstborn in Egypt.

Indeed God did kill some who were not culpable/guilty of any sin themselves, which was a consequence of man’s actions that God foresaw, yet again, as said, for you to judge it to be wrong for the Creator to take away the life and breath that He gave presupposes that you know what all the consequences would be for them and for others if He did not act as He did.

Meaning once again that you are presuming omniscience omnipotence.

Next,

The claim that the giver of life has the right to take life still is flawed since it means an omniscient and omnipotent being is evil and cruel when he kill innocent creatures because they act the way he created them to.”

Rather, it is your argument that is flawed, since as said, knowing what man will do still does not force man to do it, and again, you can only presume that you know better than God that giving man the freedom to chose btwn 2 opposites, with consequences (rather than making man like a robot or cloud, or stopping man every time he was going to do evil, or reversing the effects every time man did evil, etc.), was unjust in the light of all that can be know about the past and future effects.

And the “children of the devil “(1 John 3:10) “fitted for destruction” (Romans 9:22) are not judged for what they could not help but choose to do, but they are condemned on the basis of the choices they could and did make contrary to what they knew was right, misusing good things gave graciously God gave them and breaking His good laws — their own works not those of others. (Dt 24:16; 1Kg 14:13; 2 Kg14:6; 22:18-20; 2 Chrn 25:4; Jer 31:29,3)

And as God owes grace to no one, then He cannot be unjust in showing more grace to some than others. Arguing what God could do and did not once again presupposes that you know better than God.

Meaning once again that you must presume omniscience omnipotence in order to judge God. There is no way around this.

Next,

You can only blindly assert that “everything god does is good j even killing innocent children because he is omniscient and omnipotent.”

Rather it means that when a being is omniscient omnipotent and can this take away life that He gave in the first place, and thus exterminate the wicked and deliver the innocent from becoming like the former, ending up in Heaven rather than Hell, then you as a very very finite being cannot indict Him as doing wrong.

Meaning once again that you are presuming omniscience omnipotence. There is no way around this.

Next:

According to the bible he is the creator of evil Isaiah 45:7 “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things””

Yes, God who made everything good, and who cannot commit iniquity, (Job 34:10) also creates evil, not moral evil but evil in the sense of sending evil/trouble/adversity in judgments. For that is how it is revealed in the Bible, in which context is how you understand the Bible.

But if you just read the prevaricating propaganda of atheist web sites you would not know that.

Next,

This means your god can only be a good god if you re define evil and good just because god does it.”

Rather, it is God who gives man [the] moral sense that you even need to make a moral argument [and moral judgment must take into account what the actor knew, and intent, and its effects], and God expressly defines the very morality of good and evil in the Bible.

However, atheism has no transcendent supreme standard for morality (as you said, “no teachings, no rules, no ideology, no claims, no answers”), and can itself justify sin while it condemns God for they simply cannot allow that God can be just and merciful such by exterminating the wicked and delivering the innocent from becoming like the former, ending up in Heaven rather than Hell.

You can also postulate other alternative means of dealing with choices and consequences but that presupposes that you know what all the consequences would be for them and for others if He did not act as He did.

Meaning once again that you are presuming omniscience omnipotence. There is no way around this.

Next:

the other alternative is that the god of the the bible is just another bronze age myth which takes mental gymnastics defend

Meaning when all else fails, you must resort to a strawman [the bronze age premise like that of the copycat fallacy] for your gymnastics charge to be valid, and attack the integrity and authority of the very Source that your argument has required. [your myopia would also likely fit in with the jurors initially in 12 Angry Men]

Which is irrational and leaves you without any valid argument, and which means I will do as I said and provide this exchange where public can see it better.

Which would be better taking up more of my time with your specious vain arrogant railings against the very Creator who have you life, breath and all things, and His Son who gave Himself for your salvation, that you may find life thru Him. May you yet do so. Good night.

Related:

God could have,

  • 1. made us (and angels) with no moral standard or sense or deprived us from the moral ability to respond to or choose good [morally insensible].

  • 2. granted us free moral agency, but never have given us anything to choose between [negation of moral choices].

  • 3. called man to make the Creator their ultimate object of spiritual affection and allegiance and source of security as being what is right and what is best for man, versus finite created beings or things being one's "god," and provided moral revelation and influences. But always have moved us to do good, and never have allowed us to choose evil (even if as by making believing in God and choosing good so utterly compelling — like God appearing daily and always doing miracles on demand, and preventing any seeming evidence to the contrary - so that no man could attempt to make excuses for not believing in Him [effective negation of any freedom to choose]).

  • 4. allowed us to choose evil, but immediately reversed any effects and not penalized such [negation of moral consequences].

  • 5. allowed us to do bad, but restricted us to a place where it would harm no one but ourselves [restriction of moral consequences].

  • 6. allowed us to choose between good and evil, and to affect others by it, but not ultimately reward or punish us accordingly [negation of eternal consequences, positive or negative].

  • 7. given us the ability to choose, and alternatives to chose from, and to face and overcome evil or be overcome by it, with the ability to effect others and things by our choices, and to exercise some reward or punishment in this life for morality, and ultimately reward or punishment all accordingly [pure justice].

  • 8. restrained evil to some degree, while making the evil that man does to work out for the good of those who want good, and who thus love God, who is supremely Good.

  • 9. in accordance with 8, the Creator could have chose to manifest Himself in the flesh, and by Him to provide man a means of escaping the ultimate retribution of Divine justice, and instead receive unmerited eternal favor, at God's own expense and credit, appropriated by a repentant obedient faith, in addition to the loss or gaining of certain rewards based on one's quality of work as a child of God. And eternally punish, to varying degrees, those whose response to God's revelation manifested they want evil, [justice maintained while mercy and grace given].

4h  ·https://www.quora.com/If-God-really-exists-and-requires-that-all-humans-follow-a-religion-why-doesn-t-he-she-or-it-tell-mankind-which-denomination-of-religion-is-the-correct-denomination-of-religion-to-follow-instead-of-letting-humans/answer/Daniel-Hamilton-53?comment_id=353268205&comment_type=2

No, that irrational parroted polemic is simply non-sense. Simply put, knowing what a person will do does not require removing his ability to choose, as well as alternatives to choose btwn.

Nor is the above removal required in order to that person to fulfil a role that an omniscient being knows that they will, correspondent to his plan. Being in a script according to foreknowledge does not require one to have no choice scripted

As concerns the latter, due to the character of a person (which character is due to previous choices), I can quite assuredly know how a certain person will react to words of mine, such as a moral reproof, and which could actually accomplish a plan I have, even though that person need not react as I know he will.

In the case of old Pharaoh, in the program of God delivering the Hebrews, then Moses both records that Pharaoh hardened his own heart, (Ex. 8:15, 32) as well as that God stated that He would harden Pharaoh’s heart, (Ex. 4:21) and did, Ex. 14:8) as an example of what not to do, (1 Sam, 6:6)

Yet God did not hardened Pharaoh’s heart by taking away his will or any alternatives, and in fact at some points Pharaoh relented to some degree.

But instead, God hardened Pharaoh’s heart via actions that normally would have moved a person to rationally change his mind, as requested and as others did.

How you react to this reproof is your choice.

Moreover, as an infinitely wise omniscient as well as omnipotent being, then morally speaking, knowing what every single effect will be of every choice of man - immediate, resultant and progressive, not only in this life but the future and in eternity - as well as the motive behind each one, and being able to make all to ultimately work out for what is Good, with justice as well as with mercy and grace;

means that you are beyond being judged by manifestly finite exceedingly ignorant man, though anti-theists habitually do so according to nature, thereby presuming omniscience.



Being an omniscient entity means knows exactly what will happen which means there can be no choice for humans. A human can only hopt to predict a response which is not omniscience

Actually, your response examples irrationality, since it presumes omniscience equates to predetermination as requiring the removal of choice, which is simply not a rational conclusion. If I could go back in time to 50 years ago then I could know for certain things that would happen, but that simply does not mean I must make any happen. And yet for an eternal omniscient the future is seen as well as the past.

And I were omniscient and also omnipotent, then I could also know what all the effects would be of any possible choices I made while in the past, and even know what brought them about, and know how to be able ensure man would be able to make choices, and yet, as with Pharaoh, leave him with the ability to make his own choices.

God knew just what the Pharaoh would do”

Yes, indeed God did know exactly what the Pharaoh would do. But that in no way meant Pharaoh had no alternative choice, not only in the one's at issue, but the previous moral choices he made which left him with a heart that resulted in the character that he had, with its resultant response to manifestly supernatural reproofs.

“means that you are beyond being judged by manifestly finite exceedingly ignorant man,” Really? What do you think happens daily in court rooms around the world? I’ll give you a clue. Humans sit in judgement of other humans.

The exceedingly finite judging the same is simply not analogous to the exceedingly finite, profoundly relatively ignorant of all that can be known, and existing as mere specks in the universe, and in the expanse of time, presuming to condemn an omniscient and also omnipotent being as immoral, which is absurd, seeing as the former is in no position to know all the facts, past, present and future and all the causes, and effects, past and future into eternity...

Humans may be far from knowing everything yet he is hardly ignorant, especially since the last two centuries.”

Which also another proffered polemic of antitheists, that argues that science has discovered the physical causes of such occurrences as lightning which used to ascribed as purely supernatural. then all else will be, that the universe is a result of purely natural processes, which is a position of faith since it certainly is no proven.

And to the contrary, the more we learn of an exceedingly vast, systematically ordered universe, exquisitely finely tuned for life with intricate astounding complexity, then the more it testifies to design, requiring a First Cause (at the least), that of a powerful being of supreme intelligence being behind the existence of energy and organization of matter.