The following is in
response to a post at the The Christian Diarist blog entitled,
Does
the Bible Teach ‘Once Saved, Always Saved’?
This was in response to a sermon that he heard which taught that even
if a Christian renounced the faith - in this case declaring himself
an atheist - yet he is secure for all eternity since he one
time gave his life to the Lord.
I concur with the
Christian Diarist and myself disagree with that position, often
called OSAS (once saved, always saved) but I had trouble
posting my responses there (but which needed editing anyway), and my first post here sets down
what I see regarding this issue overall, while a second post I hope to finish will
be in response to a poster who argued for the OSAS position.
The issue of OSAS (once
saved, always saved) also pertains to the "Lordship salvation"
controversy, and let it first be said that it is clear that a
believer is justified by faith and not on the basis of works, (Eph.
2:8,9) as if he could earn eternal life, for what we actually earn
are the wages of sin, that being the second death. (Rm. 6:23; Rv.
20:11-15) Instead, the sinner is reconciled to God on God/Christ's
expense and credit, by His sinless shed blood and righteousness. (Rm.
3:25 - 5:1)
However, while faith
appropriates justification - for God justifies the UnGodly by faith
(Rm. 4:5) - yet it is abundantly manifest in Scripture that the kind
of faith that justifies is one that effects characteristic obedience
towards its Object, the Divine "Lord" Jesus whom the
contrite sinner calls upon in conversion (Rm. 10:13) and in whose
name he is baptized, (Acts 2:38) for he walks "in the steps of
that faith of our father Abraham," in newness of life. (Rm.
4:12; 6:4)
And while "a man
is justified by faith without the deeds of the law," (Rm. 3:27)
yet as the nature of justifying faith is one that confesses Christ
(Rm. 10:10) in manifold ways (which justifies one as having true
faith), therefore it is written that "not the hearers of the law
are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified,"
(Romans 2:13) as faith works to fulfill the righteousness of the law
by yielding to the Spirit who inspired its writing. (Rm. 8:4) And it
is
abundantly evidenced that Scripture is the supreme transcendent
material standard for obedience and testing truth claims.
Believers thus show
forth works which correspond to “repentance toward God, and
faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ,” (Acts 20:21; 26:20),
especially a unique sacrificial love for the brethren, manifesting,
as it is written, "things that accompany salvation...For God is
not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have
shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and
do minister." (Hebrews 6:9-10)
Therefore "just
Lot" (2Pt. 2:7) — while not being as Abraham in character
and spiritual maturity and often invoked as a carnal believer —
immediately opened his house to holy men, and risked his life for
the brethren, and managed to maintain 2 daughters and marry the rest
in a city given to fornication, and which grieved him, and sought the
Lord. Me thinks few believers today do or would as much.
Note that in conversion
one is not believing on the Lord Jesus Christ apart from who He is,
as repentance is implicit in believing on the Lord Jesus to save you
from your sins, and which shows Christ to be Good and sin to be
evil, and in conversion one is basically choosing light over
darkness. (Jn. 3:19-21)
However, the degree of
change resulting from conversion is according to light and grace
received, (Lk. 12:48) which relates to both conscience and character
and the depth of conversion.
Thus there are two extremes to be avoided in gospel preaching, that of requiring the candidate to quit all sin in order to come to Christ, while the other extreme fosters conversions that do not result in manifest overall change, as their labor tends towards coaxing sinners into saying a "sinner's prayer” out of intellectual assent. If conversion was treated like marriage, the latter school would be like a father coaxing a man to assent to marry his daughter out of self interest, when he actually shows little interest in her or heart desire for what marriage offers.
Thus there are two extremes to be avoided in gospel preaching, that of requiring the candidate to quit all sin in order to come to Christ, while the other extreme fosters conversions that do not result in manifest overall change, as their labor tends towards coaxing sinners into saying a "sinner's prayer” out of intellectual assent. If conversion was treated like marriage, the latter school would be like a father coaxing a man to assent to marry his daughter out of self interest, when he actually shows little interest in her or heart desire for what marriage offers.
It is argued by those
who engage in this type of evangelism that it is presumptuous for us
to claim to know the heart of another, but the Scripture states that
the spiritual man has discernment, (1Cor. 2:15) which we hope all to
have in both marriage and conversion. Biblical evangelism requires
labor as Holy Spirit instruments of conviction “of sin, and
of righteousness, and of judgment, (Jn 16:8) as we see Peter and Paul
doing in Acts, and which resulted in a basic repentance of faith in
the Lord Jesus, thus effecting corresponding changes in heart and
life. And or persecution!
As faith, confidence,
trust, is manifest in changes in heart and deeds, (Ja. 2:18) and
those who are given eternal life are those who characteristically
follow the Lord, (Jn. 10:27, thus the famous assurance verse, 1Jn.
5:13, refers to what was written before it, that of overall
characteristics which manifest conversion, in which ongoing, willful
impenitent committing of known sin is contrary to salvific faith, and
instead practicing righteousness is the norm for a believer. And
which includes repentance when convicted by the Holy Spirit of sin.
(2Cor. 7:6-11) Thus, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive
ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is
faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all
unrighteousness. " (1 John 1:8-9)
King David committed
great sins (which were were easy for him to do in his position), but
upon being fingered by the Holy Ghost he immediately confessed that
he had sinned, and found forgiveness thereby, though not escape from
all its chastising consequences. (2Sam. 12:1-14ff)
Having seen that faith
appropriates justification, and that salvific faith is that which
effects characteristic obedience towards its Object, let us consider
that warnings are given of converts denying the faith, and in the end
forfeiting what faith obtained. 1Tim. 5:8 expressly states that a
believer who fails to provide his families real needs (presuming
ability) has “denied the faith,” and Gal. 5:1-4 —
clearly speaking to believers who had the Spirit, (Gal. 4:6) and who
set at liberty — warns them against submitting to justification
based on keeping all the law under Judaism, versus fulfilling its
righteousness as a result of justification by faith. (Rm. 8:4) By
such submission to Judaism these converts would be making Christ of
"none effect," and "fallen from grace."
Likewise, as believers
we are also told in Hebrews that we are part of the house of Christ
"if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope
firm unto the end." As rather than having "an evil heart of
unbelief, in departing from the living God," and being "hardened
through the deceitfulness of sin," (Heb. 3:6,12,14) drawing
"back unto perdition" by willful impenitent sinning, and
dissociating with the (persecuted) church, (Hebrews 10:25,26,38) we
must "hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the
end," (Heb. 3:14) that being the actual realization of "the
salvation of the soul," for our confidence "hath great
recompence of reward." (Hebrews 10:35,39)
And this is why we have such statements that seem to teach salvation
by works, such as Mt. 25:34-40) but which is actually the Lord
rewarding faith manifested in works. Thus peacemakers shall be called
the children of God, (Mt. 5:9) and like statements, not because
their works make them objectively morally deserving of salvation
(rather than damnation because of their sins), but because being
meek, showing mercy, making peace, etc. are characteristics of the
elect of God.
This is also why we
read that women “shall be saved in childbearing, if they
continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety,”
(1Tim. 2:15) meaning by a faith that is faithful in their normal
vocation (though not necessarily childbearing) in love and charity,
versus rebelliousness. For we are saved by a faith that follows the
Lamb of God, and which will be rewarded.
In addition, what is
also contrary to the idea that any kind of faith is salvific, and
remains so regardless if they impenitently continue walk in known
sin, is the reality is that God chastens believers so that they will
"not be judged with the rest of the world." (1Cor. 11:32)
The idea that God
rewards such impenitence by “taking them home” without
repentance, as OSAS advocates argue such as in the situation 1Cor. 5
deals with, is absurd, as instead the Lord's chastening of such is to
effect godly sorrow which worketh repentance to salvation, as was the
case of 1Cor. 5 (2Cor. 2:6-8; 7:9-11)
And herein is part of
the confidence that a believer is to have, that not only are we saved
by a effectual kind of faith, but that God is able to keep us in the
faith, as "judgment shall return unto righteousness: and all the
upright in heart shall follow it." (Psalms 94:15) Yet, as in
conversion, this entails a response worked by God on our part, but it
is still a choice believers are given.
In summation, as I see it, we are
saved by faith in the risen Lord Jesus, and which Scripture reveals
as being a faith that effects the "obedience of
faith," (Rm. 16:26) as a characteristic, which includes repentance when convicted of sin. And thus Scripture warns of believers forsaking the faith by impenitent
moral sins and or critical doctrinal ones, while also showing that God plays for “keeps,”
so that if there is a final forfeiting of that which faith procured, it
is done in resistance, despite God working to bring one to
repentance, which working is such places as in most of the letters to the churches in
Rev. 2+3.
The following is the rest of my response to a defense of OSAS, though it does not place Templeton in the camp of the elect but relegates him to never having been regenerated. However I deal with both here in arguing that Scripture warns of converts denying the faith and forfeiting what faith appropriated if they die unrepentant.
The following is the rest of my response to a defense of OSAS, though it does not place Templeton in the camp of the elect but relegates him to never having been regenerated. However I deal with both here in arguing that Scripture warns of converts denying the faith and forfeiting what faith appropriated if they die unrepentant.
I
will preface my response here by reiterating
that true faith in any moral authority effects a corresponding
change, and rather than giving assurance based on profession, the
“things which accompany salvation,” (Heb.
5:9) and which things 1Jn
5:13 refers to in more depth, negates the idea of salvation based
upon a faith in the Lord Jesus which overall denies Him otherwise,
while these evidences provide assurance based on the Lord's overall
effectual working of love and holiness in one's heart and life.
There
are extremes here, with one end asserting a believer does not sin,
misunderstanding verbs in such places as 1Jn. 3 as being absolute
rather than denoting characteristic practices, and such sinless
perfection advocates also usually relegate 1Jn.
1:8,9 as
referring to unbelievers, but what “doeth righteousness”
and “sinneth not” describe are the overall
characteristics of a believer, and which also includes confessing sin
as per 1Jn. 1:9,
and which characteristics provides assurance that has real faith, and
thus one possesses eternal life, versus one who may profess but is
walking in darkness. This is more fully explained in my comments that
follow.
“Yet
with your conclusion we can become unsaved by works or the lack
thereof.”
Not
any more than that believers are saved by works when the Lord rewards
them with eternal life in response to their works, as in Mt.
25:34-40. But this a case of God, as an act of grace,
recompensing faith (“which hath great recompence of reward:”
Heb. 10:35)
that is manifest by works, though in reality we really deserve
damnation, and thus appropriate justification by faith in the Lord
Jesus, on His account. But which faith is evidenced as salvific by
what it effects, that of works which correspond to repentance.
Likewise that one has denied the faith is manifest by a negative
confession, and forfeits what faith appropriates, making Christ “of
no effect,” falling “from grace,” (Gal.
5:4) “departing from the living God.” (Heb.
3:12)
Paul
knew the “election of God” of the Thessalonians, for they
“turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God. ”
(1Thes. 1:4,9)
And likewise Paul knew a convert was denying the faith by acting
worse than an infidel, (1Tim.
5:8) or if converts yielded to a different gospel, (Gal.
5:1-4) or continued willfully in sin, drawing back in faith and
separating from the brethren. (Heb.
10:25-39)
Again,
one is justified by faith, and the just live by faith, but not a
faith that is inert, but like Abraham, it is characterized by
obedience, and faith is denied by knowingly continuing impenitently
in sin. A believer may have some kind of besetting sin, (Heb.
12:1) even if just a short temper (and it is evdent that there
are degrees of sin, though all are sins), but he longs to be free
from sin, and whom God will work in to effect overcoming, insomuch as
they choose to cooperate. J. C. Ryle describes well the heart of a
believer in “Are
you born again?”
Thus
the practically unrighteous, such as who are characterized by
practicing drunkenness, theft, etc. will not inherit the kingdom of
God, and which true believers were (past tense). (1Cor.
6:9-11) And separating oneself from such was a requirement for
God being their Father, (2Cor.
6:14-18)
However,
the OSAS position at issue teaches that these exclusions do not apply
to impenitent Christian practitioners of adulterers, etc. The
Calvinistic OSAS will deny such were ever saved, even if they treated
them a brethren for decades in view of manifest fruits of
regeneration.
“at
what point do we lose that salvation? Where is that absolute line.”
The
Scriptures teach that such converts as describe above have denied the
faith, but that one has definitely denied the Lord Jesus in rejecting
what he once believed is not always clear in every case any more than
it always is clear in every case that one truly has been converted.
But as Scripture shows that a believer is known by what he
characteristically manifests, likewise it describes those who have
denied the faith as manifesting the contrary.
And
thus Paul required believers to examine their lives as to whether
they “be in the faith,” saying, “prove your own
selves.” (2Cor.
13:5)
David
could sin, but he repented when convicted — this being a
characteristic of a believer — while if he becomes “hardened
through the deceitfulness of sin," and walks after an “evil
heart of unbelief,” willfully and impenitently sinning after
conviction, then he would be drawing "back unto perdition."
(Heb. 3:; 10:19-38)
“Remember
what Paul said? We are–Pe 1:2 Elect according to the
foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the
Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:”
Indeed, but as shown, Paul knew the
Thessalonians were
elect due to their faith being shown in works, while Paul also stated
that if the persecuted Thessalonians, after “having received
the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost,”
(1Thes. 1:6)
were “moved by these afflictions” and had given into
temptation to deny the Lord, then his labour would have been “in
vain.” (1Thes.
3:5)
“Can
God go back through his declaration of Salvation and the Sealing to
“unsave” us.”
Again,
God's declaration of salvation is contingent upon Abrahamic faith in
the Lord Jesus, justifying one in heart, not because one deserves it
because is righteous (as what we actually “earn” is
damnation), yet this Abrahamic faith is manifest as being salvific by
what it effects, “things which accompany salvation,”
which Abraham evidenced. Conversely, denying faith by formally or
effectually renouncing the Lord Jesus, as i have described, forfeits
what faith appropriated.
The
“seal” is that of the sanctifying Holy Spirit, and which
confirms that the sealed are under the ownership and power of
another, (cf. Rom.15:27-28)
that being God. And which adoption is by faith, and as we are “kept
by the power of God through faith unto salvation,” (1Pt.
1:5) so once again it is the manner of faith one has that is the
issue, as casting off faith makes Christ of “no effect,”
fallen from grace, forfeiting what is obtained. Also, the idea that a
seal must be permanent is not accurate. (Mat.
27:66; Rv.
20:3)
God
is the one that sets the seal upon believers, but believers can have
the Holy Spirit and yet be in danger of denying the Lord, such as the
Galatians were in danger of doctrinally doing. While a convert can
become reprobate, as it seems Templeton is, yet i would hold that as
long as we can repent then we still have the Holy Spirit, even if
grieving Him, thus there is no becoming “born again, again.”
“Of
whom are we speaking here? Jesus. Jesus is able to keep us from
falling.”
Indeed
He can, thank God,
as “He is
able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him,
seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them." (Hebrews
7:25)
But
as one must turn to the Lord in conversion, by God's grace, so one
must choose to continue in that grace through faith, and thus there
are at lot of “ifs” in the Bible, including, "But
Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold
fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end,"
(Hebrews 3:6,
cf. v. 14)
in contrast to drawing back unto perdition. (Heb.
10:38,39)
“Another
verse to consider is: Joh 10:29..”
However,
note what kind of believer this applies to: "My sheep hear my
voice, and I know them, and they follow me," (John
10:27) but the version of OSAS at issue here denies that, and
calls souls “sheep” even though they spurn God's voice
and run with the wolves.
As
for not being able to be taken from God's hands, this refers to no
one being able to remove His sheep who chose to be in His hand by
faith, as they are “kept by the power of God through faith,”
but which keeping not disallow souls choosing to deny the faith which
placed them in keeping, as Templeton has and the Galatians would be
doing in submitting to Judaism.
“I
respectfully submit the following: 1Co
5:5..”The Greek means to annihilate. His life on earth
would be know more. He also attests that his spirit would be saved.”
That
is manifestly an incorrect interpretation. Paul is not killing him so
he can go to glory, and instead he actually proceeds to teach the
Corinthians that such are excluded from the Kingdom of God. (1Cor.
6:9-11; 2Cor.
6:14-18), Rather than essentially rewarding the incestuous man by
sending him to be with the Lord, Paul's purpose was to effect
repentance, which chastisement does if one responds positively, (Heb.
12) and which apparently was accomplished. (1Cor.
2:6-11) "Before I was afflicted I went astray: but now have
I kept thy word." (Psalms
119:67)
“It
also mentions that liars and gossipers would not enter also. I have
lied and gossiped. you might say oh, that’s for chronic liars…
How chronic? If you rob one bank you are a bank robber and if you say
one lie you are a liar.”
The
difference is between those who show “patient
continuance in well doing,” (Rm.
2:7) and characteristically manifest things which accompany
salvation, bearing fruits of the Spirit, (Gal.
5:22-23) and repenting when they realize they have sinned, versus
those who manifestly
deny the faith, drawing back from living by faith, “departing
from the living God,” (Heb.
3:12) by choosing a different gospel and or sinning impenitently
and willfully, such as those who work abomination, and
love
lies and make
them as a
practice. (Rv.
21:27; 22:15)
“We
are separated only because of that one act of disobedience.”
But
eternal damnation is based on how men acted out their sinful nature
in resisting conscience and forms of God's grace, (Rv.
20:11-15; Lk.
12:45-48) — and the lost can at some point resist sin (Gn.
4:7) — but I do not see the lost being condemned because
they had an Adamic nature, as if they were culpable for that.
“We
all sin and if their is a point where we lose that salvation, I think
God would tell us, warn us as to not cross that line.”
He
does, as shown, first by qualifying what manner of faith is salvific,
with “things which accompany salvation,” (Heb.
6:9) and revealing what characterized saved souls in contrast to
the lost, and then excluding converts such as assent to a false
gospel and or willfully and impenitently practice sin, as described
(contra 1Jn.
1:7-10). And which general “line” is seen in teaching
believers that we are of the house of Christ “if we hold fast
the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end,”
and are “made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of
our confidence stedfast unto the end,” and by warning us
against casting “away your confidence” and drawing back
“unto perdition,” with “an evil heart of unbelief,
in departing from the living God,” and “making Christ of
none effect,” falling “from grace.” (Heb,. 3:6-14;
10:35,39, Gal, 5:1-4)
“We
used to joke about those who believed they could lose their salvation
and then regain it by repenting. We would say they were “Born
again , again.”
As
long as we can repent then we still have the Holy Spirit, even if
grieving Him. Thus there is no becoming born again, again, as would
be if believers lost the Holy Spirit and were born again. Those who
repent from backsliding have not lost the Spirit and regained Him,
but by repentance they have yielded to the grieved Spirit living
within them.
If
souls who had been born again die in final apostasy then they will
have done so after having terminally grieved the Spirit. Such a one
has “counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was
sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of
grace,” (Heb.
10:29) and “hath forgotten that he was
purged from his old sins,” as a result of not working to make
their “calling and election sure” by growing in grace so
that they “shall never fall.” (2Pt.
1:9,10)
And
like those who rejected the prepared feast to which they were
graciously invited, (Mt.
22:1-7) this does not impugn upon the ability of the King, but
renders those who spurn “so great salvation” (Heb.
2:3) to be worthy of “greater damnation” (Lk.
20:47) than lost sinners who had not as much light and grace.
(Lk.
12:42-48)
